I don't think mainstream support is the problem. I think getting people to support the right things is. Who's lives would be ruined due to improving salmon runs? If you're talking money, I'd bet that salmon fishing revenues and those tied to it (ie motels, gas, etc) would bring more money to the states that would be impacted than the dams do. In additon to spreading that money to more people.
Larry Craig VS Salmon
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
I don't think lives would be ruined by better runs. I do think the lawsuits in the last 20 years over an endangered minnow that shuts down an economy or an owl that puts all logging out of business has caught up to the fringe and the mainstream has decided that it has gone too far. If the mainstream voter wants to improve the runs then they will need to support an alternative power source like nukes. You will not get voters to support change if it causes hardship on the masses. Also the runs are affected by drought but that never gets any attention. How can you spill water over dams if there isn't any to spill? Build a nuke plant, blow the dams and open a season on sea lions. Good luck.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ringer,
You're so full of crap you're about to explode.
Ringer the brain child said, "an owl that puts all logging out of business". Riiiigggghhht.
Yep all logging has come to end because of spotted owls...thats why its impossible for me to buy lumber by the millions of board feet if I want to. People in American are standing in line to buy TP. School kids are writing on chalk boards because of the paper shortage. Yep, logging has been stopped cold.
Oh, and I'd like you to provide some proof of this wild-assed claim, "an endangered minnow that shuts down an economy"
Which economy would that be? How many jobs were lost? How much revenue was lost? How many tax dollars were lost?
Ringer, for Christ sake, at least come up with some rhetoric that makes some sense.
Where do people come up with this crap?
Unbelievable.
You're so full of crap you're about to explode.
Ringer the brain child said, "an owl that puts all logging out of business". Riiiigggghhht.
Yep all logging has come to end because of spotted owls...thats why its impossible for me to buy lumber by the millions of board feet if I want to. People in American are standing in line to buy TP. School kids are writing on chalk boards because of the paper shortage. Yep, logging has been stopped cold.
Oh, and I'd like you to provide some proof of this wild-assed claim, "an endangered minnow that shuts down an economy"
Which economy would that be? How many jobs were lost? How much revenue was lost? How many tax dollars were lost?
Ringer, for Christ sake, at least come up with some rhetoric that makes some sense.
Where do people come up with this crap?
Unbelievable.
Ithaca 37
New member
ringer, It's time to start paying attention when people tell you you're stupid. 
JoseCuervo
New member
Hey Buzz,
You missed ringer's most stupid statement.....
Yeppers, the Salmon that have returned to Idaho for Thousands of years, if not millions of years, are down to the last few fish because of a drought..... Funny, but how did the fish survive thousands of years if they can't survive this "drought"? I don't know that I have heard anybody call this "drought" the worst drought in 20,000 years... Only ringer knows the apocolyptic magnatude of the last few year's of water supplies.
You missed ringer's most stupid statement.....
Yeppers, the Salmon that have returned to Idaho for Thousands of years, if not millions of years, are down to the last few fish because of a drought..... Funny, but how did the fish survive thousands of years if they can't survive this "drought"? I don't know that I have heard anybody call this "drought" the worst drought in 20,000 years... Only ringer knows the apocolyptic magnatude of the last few year's of water supplies.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I'm sure Ringer can tell us all how the Columbia and Snake must have dried up from previous "droughts" in the last 20,000 years...
Ringer, tell us about that...while you're at it...explain how the BPA has managed to "make water" for hydro-electric power production in times of this latest "drought".
If theres no water to spill over dams...how can there be water to produce electricity???
You have some explaining to do.
Ringer, tell us about that...while you're at it...explain how the BPA has managed to "make water" for hydro-electric power production in times of this latest "drought".
If theres no water to spill over dams...how can there be water to produce electricity???
You have some explaining to do.
Buzz-ever been to Bonneville? The water runs turbines from the base of the dam and in drought years they sure don't allow much spilling. Same bullshit arguments from you that the hippies use here to try to blow up the dams on Powell and Mead. Wonder what Arizona, Nevada and California would do for water to drink? I know you don't give a shit and want to turn the clock back but you will never stop growth and that's a fact. Bunch of toothless dogs in this fight.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Hey Ringer,
You dont get it.
Read Cadillac Desert by Marc Risner, come back and we'll discuss the BPA, Dams, Water politics and the like.
I'm not going to spoon feed you your mush. Do everyone a favor and educate yourself before you spout off about things you have no idea about.
You dont get it.
Read Cadillac Desert by Marc Risner, come back and we'll discuss the BPA, Dams, Water politics and the like.
I'm not going to spoon feed you your mush. Do everyone a favor and educate yourself before you spout off about things you have no idea about.
Ithaca 37
New member
It's kinda hard to imagine how stupid a person would have to be to blame a recent two or three year drought for a problem that started immediately when the dams were built about a half century ago.
When hundreds of scientists have pinpointed the problem and only a few crackpots are still trying to deny the dams are the major cause of the fish run declines, only an idiot would still try to blame something else.
When dams in other parts of the country have been breached and fish runs increased dramatically in the first two years only a true simpleton would still be in denial.
When there are so many opportunities to educate oneself on the problem by reading hundreds of articles and scientific peer reviewed studies only a complete fool would think his uneducated dingbat opinion had any credibility.
When hundreds of scientists have pinpointed the problem and only a few crackpots are still trying to deny the dams are the major cause of the fish run declines, only an idiot would still try to blame something else.
When dams in other parts of the country have been breached and fish runs increased dramatically in the first two years only a true simpleton would still be in denial.
When there are so many opportunities to educate oneself on the problem by reading hundreds of articles and scientific peer reviewed studies only a complete fool would think his uneducated dingbat opinion had any credibility.
Like I said, toothless dogs. Flap your lips all you want and the dams won't get breached. You guys were whining about the same thing two years ago and guess what-they're still there. Vote the guy out but make sure you punch the chad out all the way.
JoseCuervo
New member
ringer,
You don't think we are making progress toward removing the dams??? Didn't Judge Redden just throw out the plan that Dubya/Craig proposed and supported?
If we didn't have the obstructionists like Craig/Dubya in the way, Salmon fishing would be allowed in hundreds of miles of rivers in Idaho. Some day, it will be again.
You don't think we are making progress toward removing the dams??? Didn't Judge Redden just throw out the plan that Dubya/Craig proposed and supported?
If we didn't have the obstructionists like Craig/Dubya in the way, Salmon fishing would be allowed in hundreds of miles of rivers in Idaho. Some day, it will be again.
Nut
New member
Sorry but that will not happen until the sheep wake up. But sheep are dumb and never realize what is happening to them.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
"Craig is firmly in the back pocket of the utility industry. No doubt about it. I can't believe people vote for such an asshole, but I bet if you were to check with the Idaho voters on HT most of them vote for Craig because they're too stupid to know what he really stands for."
I got a ten spot that say's Jose is one of those "stupid" hunttalkers that voted for Craig in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if he even contributed to his campaign. Jose's a clever guy.....go off on his Michael Moron/airhead america "W's war for oil" blather that only connects with the most clueless of clueless. Most people read the 3 Fools whinning posts and think to themselves, "If the 3 fools hate this guy, he's probably not that bad, so I'll vote for him next time." And Craig wins next election by a landslide, which is what Jose really wanted in the first place!
Then Jose/Craig team together to rape and pillage what's left of their own "private idaho".
I got a ten spot that say's Jose is one of those "stupid" hunttalkers that voted for Craig in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if he even contributed to his campaign. Jose's a clever guy.....go off on his Michael Moron/airhead america "W's war for oil" blather that only connects with the most clueless of clueless. Most people read the 3 Fools whinning posts and think to themselves, "If the 3 fools hate this guy, he's probably not that bad, so I'll vote for him next time." And Craig wins next election by a landslide, which is what Jose really wanted in the first place!
Then Jose/Craig team together to rape and pillage what's left of their own "private idaho".
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Buzz,
Do you feel Pointer's statment here is acurate?
"If you're talking money, I'd bet that salmon fishing revenues and those tied to it (ie motels, gas, etc) would bring more money to the states that would be impacted than the dams do."
Isn't this comercialization of wildlife? And where does the energy come from to support the motels, Cabela's stores, and so on? How about the gas for the throngs of tourists that drive or jet out to fish the salmon runs? Where does that come from...ANWR? Oh I forgot, we can't drill there.
If you'ld be honest about the actual effects of what you are proposing, you'ld get more respect. If you and the rest of the dam breeching proponents made personal sacrifices in your lifestyle to show leadship, you'ld get more respect. Instead you want everyone else to make sacrifices you refuse to personally make...and then hide behind "the law" and say "this is how it is, tough shit". Then when the majority of the people, who have had enough of your crap decide to fight back, you whine. You want to play in the big leagues? Grow a set, or go back to little league.
BTW If you are pissed about Craig cutting the funding for fish counting, you guys could always volunteer to count them or raise funds to hire fish counters like other sportsmens groups do.
Do you feel Pointer's statment here is acurate?
"If you're talking money, I'd bet that salmon fishing revenues and those tied to it (ie motels, gas, etc) would bring more money to the states that would be impacted than the dams do."
Isn't this comercialization of wildlife? And where does the energy come from to support the motels, Cabela's stores, and so on? How about the gas for the throngs of tourists that drive or jet out to fish the salmon runs? Where does that come from...ANWR? Oh I forgot, we can't drill there.
If you'ld be honest about the actual effects of what you are proposing, you'ld get more respect. If you and the rest of the dam breeching proponents made personal sacrifices in your lifestyle to show leadship, you'ld get more respect. Instead you want everyone else to make sacrifices you refuse to personally make...and then hide behind "the law" and say "this is how it is, tough shit". Then when the majority of the people, who have had enough of your crap decide to fight back, you whine. You want to play in the big leagues? Grow a set, or go back to little league.
BTW If you are pissed about Craig cutting the funding for fish counting, you guys could always volunteer to count them or raise funds to hire fish counters like other sportsmens groups do.
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
I think you've been communicating too much with the Cheese.
You're really starting to sound ignorant, well that may be too polite, you're sounding like an idiot.
I'm sorry you dont understand anything about the commercialization of wildlife. But, like Ringer, I'm not going to spoon-feed you your mush. Educate yourself before you ask stupid questions like that.
The actual effects of having dams and no fish VS. having 4 fewer dams on the Snake River and a healthy run of fish has been addressed in length on this forum, in thousands of meetings across the N.W., and by several hundred fisheries experts across the N.W.
Theres mountains of information out there, I suggest you contact fisheries biologists, Idaho Salmon and Steelhead Unlimited, the various tribes, etc. etc. etc.
Ask them your stupid questions, they probably arent aware that they're dealing with a moron on this issue. They'll all tell you the same thing thats been reported here. If you still dont believe it, thats fine. Because in the scheme of dams and salmon, you make no difference. The law will prevail, the dams will be breached, and they'll be anadromous fish in the rivers again.
Apparently you havent been paying attention to the number of dams being breached/torn down across the country and the successful return of fish??? Denial, its a miserable thing to live with.
Oh, and dont worry BHR, once again the salmon and steelhead fishermen (actual sportsmen and CONSERVATIONISTS) will fund the FPC. Bush can throw 200 billion at an oil war with Craigs blessing, but then Craig deems it necessary to become a fiscal conservative and cut 1.3 million for people counting fish...
Unbelievable.
I think you've been communicating too much with the Cheese.
You're really starting to sound ignorant, well that may be too polite, you're sounding like an idiot.
I'm sorry you dont understand anything about the commercialization of wildlife. But, like Ringer, I'm not going to spoon-feed you your mush. Educate yourself before you ask stupid questions like that.
The actual effects of having dams and no fish VS. having 4 fewer dams on the Snake River and a healthy run of fish has been addressed in length on this forum, in thousands of meetings across the N.W., and by several hundred fisheries experts across the N.W.
Theres mountains of information out there, I suggest you contact fisheries biologists, Idaho Salmon and Steelhead Unlimited, the various tribes, etc. etc. etc.
Ask them your stupid questions, they probably arent aware that they're dealing with a moron on this issue. They'll all tell you the same thing thats been reported here. If you still dont believe it, thats fine. Because in the scheme of dams and salmon, you make no difference. The law will prevail, the dams will be breached, and they'll be anadromous fish in the rivers again.
Apparently you havent been paying attention to the number of dams being breached/torn down across the country and the successful return of fish??? Denial, its a miserable thing to live with.
Oh, and dont worry BHR, once again the salmon and steelhead fishermen (actual sportsmen and CONSERVATIONISTS) will fund the FPC. Bush can throw 200 billion at an oil war with Craigs blessing, but then Craig deems it necessary to become a fiscal conservative and cut 1.3 million for people counting fish...
Unbelievable.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Buzz,
You're good. You skillfully avoided answering any of my questions You came off sounding like a fuggin know it all, and you worked W and the Cheese into the conversation all at the same time!
Based on your Rush Limbaughesque response, it's painfully obvious that you where not privy to the salmon experts recent findings. You know the recent Pow Wow where they were getting sloppy drunk on beer and stuffing their guts with pizza (no doubt this orgy was on the taxpayers dime). Well during this orgy the salmon experts came up with a revelation. Care to take a stab at it Buzz, or would you like me to spoon feed you your mush?
BTW, does it dissapoint you to know that Jose contributed to Craig's campaign? And here you thought he was the second coming of John or Aldo, only to find out he's just a big fraud. Sad, sad, sad!
You're good. You skillfully avoided answering any of my questions You came off sounding like a fuggin know it all, and you worked W and the Cheese into the conversation all at the same time!
Based on your Rush Limbaughesque response, it's painfully obvious that you where not privy to the salmon experts recent findings. You know the recent Pow Wow where they were getting sloppy drunk on beer and stuffing their guts with pizza (no doubt this orgy was on the taxpayers dime). Well during this orgy the salmon experts came up with a revelation. Care to take a stab at it Buzz, or would you like me to spoon feed you your mush?
BTW, does it dissapoint you to know that Jose contributed to Craig's campaign? And here you thought he was the second coming of John or Aldo, only to find out he's just a big fraud. Sad, sad, sad!
JoseCuervo
New member
BHR,
You are once again talking about something you don't have a clue about, and just looking even more clueless than normal. I am not sure if it is your anti-social habits that isolated yourself, or your isolating yourself has caused the anti-social habits. Do you know which caused which?
I have never supported a Craig campaign, and was quite active as a volunteer on the Walt Minnick campaign when he ran against Craig on a Pro-salmon platform. Minnick was one of the first to support breaching.
If you want to tell lies, go ahead and tell the lies about yourself. Just don't tell lies about other people.
And you now owe me $10.....
You are once again talking about something you don't have a clue about, and just looking even more clueless than normal. I am not sure if it is your anti-social habits that isolated yourself, or your isolating yourself has caused the anti-social habits. Do you know which caused which?
I have never supported a Craig campaign, and was quite active as a volunteer on the Walt Minnick campaign when he ran against Craig on a Pro-salmon platform. Minnick was one of the first to support breaching.
If you want to tell lies, go ahead and tell the lies about yourself. Just don't tell lies about other people.
And you now owe me $10.....
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Jose,
Are you going to brag about the time you were a mole for Craig, and sent in to sabotage Walt's campaign? Did Walt win? $10 dollars please.
Are you going to brag about the time you were a mole for Craig, and sent in to sabotage Walt's campaign? Did Walt win? $10 dollars please.
JoseCuervo
New member
BigSore,
It is you that owes me $10.
I still run into Walt from time to time, and he is doing very well with his new businesses. He still is active in the Party, and looks to recruit people who can topple the Redneckican Party.
It is you that owes me $10.
I still run into Walt from time to time, and he is doing very well with his new businesses. He still is active in the Party, and looks to recruit people who can topple the Redneckican Party.
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