Land requirements for renewable energy

I like it - issue is all those pesky land and building owners who are going to want their cut. Large scale private projects from energy companies would typically want to have control of their equipment on other folks personal property.

A solution could be a government incentive to put solar panels on their personal rooftops and feed back energy into the grid. I imagine that there will be a use fee for using the grid owned by utilities but that could work.
Third party ownership has been a thing for quite some time.

 
It's a bit daunting to suss it all out, but early indications look good. We'd be spending the same for a system that we'll own in 10 years as we would throwing it away on a utility each month.

Spreadsheets are for folks who can't math in their heads.

2+2 = Epstein didn't hang himself.

See, I are smart.
wllms spreadsheet or the solar panel salesman's spreadsheet. Which one should I use if wanted to make a smart fiscal choice? 😉
 
A few basic inputs for the spreadsheet.


Michigan solar potential is better than Seattle, but worse than most of the country.


Home solar panels will not increase property taxes in Michigan, and net metering varies by utility provider.


Michigan electric rates are currently 10th highest in nation making expensive solar more competitive there.
 
MI also offers zero interest loans and competitive net metering (although that's under attack as well).

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Rex
 
Don't worry coming to BLM land near you soon. The big money that funds some of the leftish " I'm trying to be non political" so called hunting public lands groups B- A and others and hunting personalities . I guess we will see when push comes to shove what they support, See cause the source of the money wants the wind and solar on your public lands because the source of the money doesn't hunt or care about hunting like we do.
 
MI also offers zero interest loans and competitive net metering (although that's under attack as well).

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Rex
I can understand why they would be under attack. Those subsidies are part of why MI has a high cost of electricity. But I don't live there so I'll just watch the battle from the cheap seats.
 
so much harder to swindle the private property owner than the public land owner for cheap leasing and ROI though, right? ;)

I can see why largescale utilities don't want to deal with millions of potential generation sources versus a few, but between modern advances in engineering, etc I think that small-scale grid, with overarching national grid supply, makes a ton of sense, especially for places like CA that have to so much real eastate to help offset the rolling brownouts already in play. Texas as well. When the storm hit Texas, it wasn't really that they lost capacity to generate, they really and truly managed for the least costly method of preparedness, and that's what killed the power.

If every new construction was required to have renewable capability built in (wiring, supports, etc) rather than push that cost off to a later date, then we would see even more household solar come on line. Just like how houses went to be being designed for electricity or plumbing around the turn of the last century.
 
I can understand why they would be under attack. Those subsidies are part of why MI has a high cost of electricity. But I don't live there so I'll just watch the battle from the cheap seats.

Aren't Montanans going to have to spend another $700 each to bailout a failing coal plant in Eastern MT?

regardless, the issue with solar is an engineering issue, less than a "plane's gonna die" issue. So I think the smarty money is still on solar over coal.
 
I can see why largescale utilities don't want to deal with millions of potential generation sources versus a few, but between modern advances in engineering, etc I think that small-scale grid, with overarching national grid supply, makes a ton of sense, especially for places like CA that have to so much real eastate to help offset the rolling brownouts already in play. Texas as well. When the storm hit Texas, it wasn't really that they lost capacity to generate, they really and truly managed for the least costly method of preparedness, and that's what killed the power.

If every new construction was required to have renewable capability built in (wiring, supports, etc) rather than push that cost off to a later date, then we would see even more household solar come on line. Just like how houses went to be being designed for electricity or plumbing around the turn of the last century.

big time. just like the house my wife and i are having built might be among the last developments this decade in coloardo to allow a nat gas stove tops. which we are definitely having put in 😁

i just hope the political tides start to sway in favor of subsidizing and pre loading every home for solar on the roof, like you say, which i will massively support. instead of this bullchit rock bottom leasing at the expense of the public land owner to have high ROI solar in every migration corridor.

i fear every administration will stick the current MO though. cheap land, cheap solar, good money. congress is easily swayed by the dollar.
 
Aren't Montanans going to have to spend another $700 each to bailout a failing coal plant in Eastern MT?

regardless, the issue with solar is an engineering issue, less than a "plane's gonna die" issue. So I think the smarty money is still on solar over coal.
This bailout?
 
You know I was thinking about this because that's who I am and stuff like this keeps me up at night. It seems like the easiest solution is for the political elite is to take public lands for these and other uses. Now I know that some folks disagree with the existence of public land to begin with (think our good friends in the Great State of Texas), but I like em and would like to keep them around.

There is another (complicated), solution that may end up saving some capital expensive and repurpose some privately held land that could be affected. Now, this may end up changing some lives so it may be controversial.

It appears that we can grow many foods in repurposed warehouses closer to population centers which would cut down on transportation costs/exhaust emissions, increase food freshness, increase growing cycles and food production (i.e.. higher turn rates of the space being utilized to grow food), due to artificial photosynthesis. These systems seem to use less water, less soil (if any), and lower capital costs of farming equipment like tractors and large land purchases.

If this works it would likely cause a lot of farm land to be repurposed for energy uses or for growing elk herds. It would be terrible to see farm land lost to condos and further subdivisions as it contributes both to our food system and to our natural environment.


Vertical farms are going to have to catch on sooner or later. They are actually building on into a school in central MT. I was happy to see gaining traction in a small farm and ranch community
 
If only there were hundreds of millions of developed acres on which we could afix solar and wind power generators so as to not chew up more land, public or private.

View attachment 182299
When we started planning our house that was built last year I wanted to put in Solar panels bad. At the time they would pay for themselves in just a few years because of tax credits and any power you generated more than you used was bought back by the power company. Im not sure if it was everywhere, but in the great state of Iowa they let those tax credits go and the power company does not have to buy any extra generated power from you. If you create more power than you use you are essentially a power plant for the power company who turns around and sells that power to others.
 
My concern about these type of large scale projects is that people will be so enthralled about environmental progress away from fossil fuels that they will disregard any impact to wildlife. I don't know that it's bad, but I don't know if its good either. Look at that footprint, it's huge and I imagine a huge fence around it as well. I hope that someone took wildlife in consideration to provide mitigation efforts to it's potential negative impact.

View attachment 182298
I am acquaintances with a few very well known people in the birding world and although they are very much for efficiency and not burning fossil fuels they have all said that we need to be very careful with the development of green energy like large scale solar and wind farms because of the amount habitat destruction and in the case of windmills the disruption of migration and flight paths of birds. One of the said acquaintances does bird surveys around largescale windfarms; I am not sure who is funding him to do these studies but you will not find the developers bragging about the findings because it is not good for the birds.
 
This bailout?

Nothing is dead until they adjourn & leave town, compadre: https://montanafreepress.org/2021/04/23/northwester-bill-revived-by-ankney/

So yes, that - plus the millions n bailout funds NWE is going to suck up, while at the same time, trying to undermine the PSC so they get rubber-stamped on all of their rate increase requests and getting more socialism for the clean up in the coal ash ponds.
 
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