cjcj
New member
John Kerry actualy made this statement on his recent visit to AZ/Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon is Broken! It has been neglected for the past 3 years by the Bush administration!
Kerry on the Grand Canyon ?
- Thread starter cjcj
- Start date
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
It is broken. Dubya's Park Service has made that thing one of the biggest messes in the West.
Please tell me how you can argue otherwise.
It is broken. Dubya's Park Service has made that thing one of the biggest messes in the West.
Please tell me how you can argue otherwise.
cjcj
New member
How in the hell is it "broken", its a freaking huge hole caused by erosion?
feclnogn
New member
CJCJ, what you need to realize is that Bush has broken or ruined everything. Bush caused global warming. Bush is responsible for the decline in salmon in the NW. Bush caused 9-11. Bush caused the economy to collapse. If it's bad, it's Bush's fault. Bush IS the boogy man. 
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
YOu ought to try and pull a Private Party float tag for the Grand Canyon. Can't do it, meanwhile, Dubya's Parks Service keeps giving more privledges to the Outfitters and Concessionaires.
Anybody in their right mind wouldn know the Grand Canyon is broken. How can you argue otherwise???
YOu ought to try and pull a Private Party float tag for the Grand Canyon. Can't do it, meanwhile, Dubya's Parks Service keeps giving more privledges to the Outfitters and Concessionaires.
Anybody in their right mind wouldn know the Grand Canyon is broken. How can you argue otherwise???
cjcj
New member
Maybee Bruce Babbit "broke it" remember his experimental flood? when he was the most corrupt Sec. Of The Interior, under Clinton, I know there is a long,long waiting list to raft the canyon[i`m on it] $100. to get on the list then wait, but thats just like everything else in AZ overpopulation = long wait, but the real Topic question is How did G.W.Bush break it? And how is it broken? and if you can answer these 2 questions..... well i`m all ears.
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
If you can't float it or fish it, then it is broken. Simple enough.
Babbbit's flood was a resounding success, if memory serves me. Most of the beaches were turned over and re-deposited.
Again, how can you argue Dubya has not broke it??? Can you please explain how he has fixed it????
If you can't float it or fish it, then it is broken. Simple enough.
Babbbit's flood was a resounding success, if memory serves me. Most of the beaches were turned over and re-deposited.
Again, how can you argue Dubya has not broke it??? Can you please explain how he has fixed it????
cjcj
New member
Funny the last time i was at Lee`s Ferry, last year, [which by the way is a Blue- Ribbon Trout water] the trout were Huge and lots of them, also i noticed about 100-150 people getting ready to float down the river, [ Babbits flood a success? I like how you say beaches "turned over and re-deposited" [good lawyer twist] for saying beaches "destroyed"
Nut
New member
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
Beaches need highwater cycles to replenish them. Hells Canyon, the Deepest Canyon in North America is losing all of its' beaches because of managed flows of the Brownlee, Oxbow, and Hells Canyon dams. With out river flows to bring sand down, and high water to turn the beaches over, you soon lose the beaches.
Oh, and by the way, was there any context to your soundbite from Kerry, or are you just trying to ridicule the man like a cheap news commentator.
What are your thoughts on these comments by Dubya???
"As Governor of Texas, I have set high standards for our public schools, and I have met those standards."
~ George Bush Jr. CNN 2000-09-30
"At this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly outta Ronald Reagan Airport."
~ George Bush Jr.
"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."
~ George Bush Jr.
Except of course for that minor misunderstanding otherwise known as WW II and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here."
~ George Bush Jr.
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program."
~ George Bush Jr.
2000-11-02
"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."
~ George Bush Jr.
at a news conference in Europe, 2001-06-14
"I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah."
~ George Bush Jr.
speaking at a White House Menorah lighting ceremony
Source: USAtoday.com Washington D.C. 2001-12-10
"One year ago today, the time for excuse-making has come to an end."
~ George Bush Jr.
"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it."
~ George Bush Jr. on the need for better quality guns.
"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is."
Omaha, Neb., 2001-02-28
[NOTE: Bush supports the death penalty.]
"States should have the right to enact reasonable laws and restrictions particularly to end the inhuman practice of ending a life that otherwise could live."
~ George Bush Jr.
Cleveland 2000-06-29
"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam."
~ George Bush Jr.
Reported in Israeli newspaper Haaretz
"I am carrying out divine commands."
~ George Bush Jr.
in front of the astonished Canadian prime minister Paul Martin
Reported in The Toronto Globe and Mail
"We need common-sense judges who understand that our rights were derived from God. Those are the kind of judges I intend to put on the bench."
~ George Bush Jr.
Source: CBS News, 2002-06-27
"The legislature's job is to write laws; the executive branch's job is to interpret law."
~ George Bush Jr.
(Bush thinks he was elected judge, not president.)
"We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great nation."
~ George Bush Jr.
"We've wanted so many wars, and we didn't get them. And we've wanted this one for years."
~ George Bush Jr.
"Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better." Hey CJ, do Canada and Mexico really have a border????
The idea of putting subliminable messages into ads is ridiculous."
~ George Bush Jr.
"I don't think we need to be subliminable about the differences between our views on prescription drugs."
~ George Bush Jr.
Orlando Florida, 2000-09-12
"Lacerates ran down my cheeks."
~ George Bush Jr. (trying to sound grand with a Thesaurus on an Andover essay).
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
~ George Bush Jr.
"Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of 'Hop on Pop'."
~ George Bush Jr.
"In 1994, there were 67 schools in Texas that were rated exemplorary [sic] according to our own tests."
~ George Bush Jr.
"The question is, how many hands have I shaked."
~ George Bush Jr.
"What is [sic] your ambitions?"
~ George Bush Jr.
speaking at the Parkview Arts and Science Magnet School Source: Federal News Service, Remarks by President George W. Bush at a Back-to-School Event, 2002-08-29
"The California crunch really is the result of not enough power to power the power of generating plants."
~ George Bush Jr.
2000-09-15
"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
~ George Bush Jr.
"And out of the evil done to America is going to come a more peaceful world, and a more better America..."
~ George Bush Jr.
Source: FDCH Political Transcripts, George W. Bush Participates in Welcome Ceremony, 2002-10-22
Beaches need highwater cycles to replenish them. Hells Canyon, the Deepest Canyon in North America is losing all of its' beaches because of managed flows of the Brownlee, Oxbow, and Hells Canyon dams. With out river flows to bring sand down, and high water to turn the beaches over, you soon lose the beaches.
Oh, and by the way, was there any context to your soundbite from Kerry, or are you just trying to ridicule the man like a cheap news commentator.
What are your thoughts on these comments by Dubya???
"As Governor of Texas, I have set high standards for our public schools, and I have met those standards."
~ George Bush Jr. CNN 2000-09-30
"At this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly outta Ronald Reagan Airport."
~ George Bush Jr.
"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."
~ George Bush Jr.
Except of course for that minor misunderstanding otherwise known as WW II and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here."
~ George Bush Jr.
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program."
~ George Bush Jr.
2000-11-02
"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."
~ George Bush Jr.
at a news conference in Europe, 2001-06-14
"I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah."
~ George Bush Jr.
speaking at a White House Menorah lighting ceremony
Source: USAtoday.com Washington D.C. 2001-12-10
"One year ago today, the time for excuse-making has come to an end."
~ George Bush Jr.
"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable.
And we're going to do something about it." ~ George Bush Jr. on the need for better quality guns.
"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is."
Omaha, Neb., 2001-02-28
[NOTE: Bush supports the death penalty.]
"States should have the right to enact reasonable laws and restrictions particularly to end the inhuman practice of ending a life that otherwise could live."
~ George Bush Jr.
Cleveland 2000-06-29
"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam."
~ George Bush Jr.
Reported in Israeli newspaper Haaretz
"I am carrying out divine commands."
~ George Bush Jr.
in front of the astonished Canadian prime minister Paul Martin
Reported in The Toronto Globe and Mail
"We need common-sense judges who understand that our rights were derived from God. Those are the kind of judges I intend to put on the bench."
~ George Bush Jr.
Source: CBS News, 2002-06-27
"The legislature's job is to write laws; the executive branch's job is to interpret law."
~ George Bush Jr.
(Bush thinks he was elected judge, not president.)
"We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great nation."
~ George Bush Jr.
"We've wanted so many wars, and we didn't get them. And we've wanted this one for years."
~ George Bush Jr.
"Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better." Hey CJ, do Canada and Mexico really have a border????
The idea of putting subliminable messages into ads is ridiculous."
~ George Bush Jr.
"I don't think we need to be subliminable about the differences between our views on prescription drugs."
~ George Bush Jr.
Orlando Florida, 2000-09-12
"Lacerates ran down my cheeks."
~ George Bush Jr. (trying to sound grand with a Thesaurus on an Andover essay).
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
~ George Bush Jr.
"Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of 'Hop on Pop'."
~ George Bush Jr.
"In 1994, there were 67 schools in Texas that were rated exemplorary [sic] according to our own tests."
~ George Bush Jr.
"The question is, how many hands have I shaked."
~ George Bush Jr.
"What is [sic] your ambitions?"
~ George Bush Jr.
speaking at the Parkview Arts and Science Magnet School Source: Federal News Service, Remarks by President George W. Bush at a Back-to-School Event, 2002-08-29
"The California crunch really is the result of not enough power to power the power of generating plants."
~ George Bush Jr.
2000-09-15
"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
~ George Bush Jr.
"And out of the evil done to America is going to come a more peaceful world, and a more better America..."
~ George Bush Jr.
Source: FDCH Political Transcripts, George W. Bush Participates in Welcome Ceremony, 2002-10-22
BuzzH
Well-known member
CJ,
Not trying to be a wise guy, but I can tell you dont know much about how rivers function.
Rivers arent supposed to be ditches or canals. A healthy river moves across its flood plain over time...cutting on one side...depositing on the other. When rivers no longer are allowed to escape their banks on high-water years its really unhealthy. The beaches become choked with vegetation. Certain plant species like cottonwood NEED point bar development (sandy beaches, fine gravelly soils) for seedling to become established. Trout, salmon, steelhead, etc. need clean gravels for spawning. High water flows provide redd development. Dam a river and curtail how it functions by regulating flow, you get undesirable results. Its really common sense, if you take a couple minutes and think about how rivers functioned before dams and politics.
What Babbit did with the water release is what nature has done on its own for thousands of years. It needs to be done at least every 10-15 years. What he didnt do is "destroy" anything.
Not trying to be a wise guy, but I can tell you dont know much about how rivers function.
Rivers arent supposed to be ditches or canals. A healthy river moves across its flood plain over time...cutting on one side...depositing on the other. When rivers no longer are allowed to escape their banks on high-water years its really unhealthy. The beaches become choked with vegetation. Certain plant species like cottonwood NEED point bar development (sandy beaches, fine gravelly soils) for seedling to become established. Trout, salmon, steelhead, etc. need clean gravels for spawning. High water flows provide redd development. Dam a river and curtail how it functions by regulating flow, you get undesirable results. Its really common sense, if you take a couple minutes and think about how rivers functioned before dams and politics.
What Babbit did with the water release is what nature has done on its own for thousands of years. It needs to be done at least every 10-15 years. What he didnt do is "destroy" anything.
cjcj
New member
Buzz/Gunner I won`t even claim to know half as much about rivers as you guys, All i`m saying is Kerry is a "freaking" moron for his statement [the grand canyon is broken]and then tries to blame it on Bush! Gunner you know i am not supporting Bush in this election [failure on immigration]etc.etc., But when Kerry makes such an asinine claim, i feel i can point it out. I wish i could discuss this some more but i am going on vacation tommorow for about a week, but if you want to get back on topic, just tell me how G.W.Bush "broke the Grand Canyon" See you guys later.
bluehair
New member
I regret even reading some of these threads.
It's a bit of a stretch to hang the current state of the canyon around Bush's neck. It's been AFU for a while.
It's over exploited. Mainly by the rafters.
I would tend to agree that policies favor commercial operators, but it's been that way for a long time.
Perhaps the beaches being washed away is a good thing? When there are no places for the catered tourists to sleep, maybe the NPS could issue more permits for the hard core private trips who don't mind sleeping on the rocks. Hell, they're all drunk or stoned anyway.
"Salt Cedars" are a problem, but I seem to recall reading something recently that there are plans for an erradication effort. Also, I would argue that the fishing in the canyon is much better in the post Glenn Canyon Dam era than before. Unless you fish for "squawfish" or humpback chubbs.
But they still have a mile or so to themselves at the confluence of the Little Colorado, where you can't fish BTW.
But WTF do I know? I'm just hoping I can hang around here long enough to become a genious also.
And for gunner, here's a pic of yours truly in the canyon. Oh, that's me at the oars.
Love me now?
It's a bit of a stretch to hang the current state of the canyon around Bush's neck. It's been AFU for a while.
It's over exploited. Mainly by the rafters.
Perhaps the beaches being washed away is a good thing? When there are no places for the catered tourists to sleep, maybe the NPS could issue more permits for the hard core private trips who don't mind sleeping on the rocks. Hell, they're all drunk or stoned anyway.
"Salt Cedars" are a problem, but I seem to recall reading something recently that there are plans for an erradication effort. Also, I would argue that the fishing in the canyon is much better in the post Glenn Canyon Dam era than before. Unless you fish for "squawfish" or humpback chubbs.
But they still have a mile or so to themselves at the confluence of the Little Colorado, where you can't fish BTW.But WTF do I know? I'm just hoping I can hang around here long enough to become a genious also.
And for gunner, here's a pic of yours truly in the canyon. Oh, that's me at the oars.
Muledeer4me
New member
bluehair,I love ya man does that count LOL
A rafter and an ATV rider whats not to love
"YOu ought to try and pull a Private Party float tag for the Grand Canyon. Can't do it, meanwhile, Dubya's Parks Service keeps giving more privledges to the Outfitters and Concessionaires."
What like that is something new ?
Back when we were still running rivers it was hard to pull a private party float tag, that isnt something Bush did.
Im not fan of outfitters & concessionaires ,but think about it ,most of the same people that bitch and complain are the same type of people that want more wilderness areas more parks more predators ,they are the same ones that are using the outfitters and couldn't do a private trip to the outhouse let alone a private party whitewater or pack trip alone into the back country.
A rafter and an ATV rider whats not to love
"YOu ought to try and pull a Private Party float tag for the Grand Canyon. Can't do it, meanwhile, Dubya's Parks Service keeps giving more privledges to the Outfitters and Concessionaires."
What like that is something new ?
Back when we were still running rivers it was hard to pull a private party float tag, that isnt something Bush did.
Im not fan of outfitters & concessionaires ,but think about it ,most of the same people that bitch and complain are the same type of people that want more wilderness areas more parks more predators ,they are the same ones that are using the outfitters and couldn't do a private trip to the outhouse let alone a private party whitewater or pack trip alone into the back country.
10 miles below Glen Canyon Dam is also a Blue Ribbon Trout fishery, but past that line of demarcation, they get electroshocked and ground for fertilizer. This is done in order to aid some endangered species. It's not done higher than that because of the dam the water is un-naturally cold.
JoseCuervo
New member
Hey CJ,
How does 1-Ptr's description sound? That sounds pretty much like a "broken" river. Don't you think so???
How does 1-Ptr's description sound? That sounds pretty much like a "broken" river. Don't you think so???
cjcj
New member
If the river is "broken" where is it broken? It flows thru 4 states right? But Lurch [Kerry]said the Grand Canyon was broken and then tried to imply that it was Bush`s fault! Maybee it has always been broken after all it has a huge hole in it and is cracked all over the place, but i am still waiting for you to tell me when it "broke" and how Bush broke it? The canyon not the river.
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
I think everybody has seen that it is "broken" but you. If you need more information on how it is "broken", you need to provide context.
Don't just take things out of context to try and make Kerry look bad. Could you provide us the context.
I think everybody has seen that it is "broken" but you. If you need more information on how it is "broken", you need to provide context.
Don't just take things out of context to try and make Kerry look bad. Could you provide us the context.
cjcj
New member
Hey Gunner i am just creating controversy [just like you do] I say the Grand canyon is not broken! and thats my story ,and i am sticking to it! In fact i say that with the exception of [air pollution] from Vegas and the navajo power plant [near Page AZ] The Grand Canyon is the same Canyon, since Glen Canyon Dam was built. So now are you going to tell me we need to get rid of the dam and lake powell to fix the broken canyon?
JoseCuervo
New member
Hey CJ,
What about all the planes that crash into each other above the Canyon? You think those are broken???
What about all the planes that crash into each other above the Canyon? You think those are broken???
