Judge Rules S&W Can Be Sued

[Zach]

So isn't the entity authorizing the legal purchase culpable?

 

[Lyfter1013]

We used to buy & sell humans as well, but I'm not sure we want to go down that road until page 43 or so.

Well that escalated quickly

 

[EKYHunter]

Seems like some folks have all the answers and some folks are perfectly fine with limitations on their freedoms. Personally, I like seeing folks exercising their constitutional freedoms no matter how they’re dressed. May not be my cup of tea, but I support their right to do so.

 

[Mrjaycam]

The lawsuit claimed that the company used marketing tactics "that attracted impulsive young men with military complexes who were particularly likely to be attracted to the unique ability of AR-15 style weapons," according to the wire service.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1414790718703480836

Extremely slippery slope here. Hopefully a higher level court overturns this nonsense.

 

[geetar]

THIS ^^^^^^

Many a time I have pulled up to the range - seen the morons playing Rambo - and decided to come back another day. Unless you are all out of clean normal clothes there is no reason to put on full fatigues to go to the range.

Those are the same guys at my local range with their ARs propped on the 30 round mag like a bipod frustrated cause they can’t keep groups at 25 yards with optics.

 

[geetar]

While I believe this is generally foolishness, and political posturing.

I do find it troubling this operator fanboy behavior where people spend thousands of dollars on kit to go out to the range and pretend to kill people. It seems a clear pivot by the commercial off the shelf gear supplier trying to expand their markets as demand from GWOT has waned, or the market has just been flooded. I understand the desire to be prepared and for self defense, but I think there is some weird fantasizing/glorification of what is a real serious/brutal/necessary skill.

If it ever does hit the fan those guys will be the first killed by some radical with a crappy barely functioning weapon while they are trying to carry untold amounts of state of the art tactical nonsense.

 

[jt13]

So here is an interesting one, I clicked the link to this video and an add appeared for a CC holster, in the add someone with a knife approaches and the subject of the add draws his weapon from said holster.
View attachment 188371

This is at the very least implying one should commit an illegal use of force. It is an illegal use of force in MA, and probably in most states that do not have a stand your ground law, I have a concealed weapon permit in MA and I know the laws here, I can't speak to other states.

Specific requirement:

"Before a person may resort to deadly force he must (1) have reasonable grounds to believe and believe that he is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury from which he can save himself only by using deadly force; (2) has availed himself of all proper means to avoid physical combat before resorting to the use of deadly force and (3) use no more force than is reasonably necessary in all circumstances of the case."

Brandishing and menacing is also illegal in many states, so drawing your weapon in the conditions depicted in that ad are likely illegal.

*If the assailant had a gun in the ad it would probably be ok in my mind, though still the legal use of force depends on circumstances, and even in that circumstance man not be justifiable.

You can legally draw a gun and point it at someone if they're approaching you with a knife in a threatening manner and/or you have reason to believe the mean to do you harm.

....especially when they're trying stab you and steal your sweet blue Raptor.

The quoted law requires that you exhaust all other options before using deadly force and pulling the trigger. I'd suggest giving verbal commands and trying to get back into your sweet truck and drive away. However if that doesn't work out then you may find yourself in a justified deadly force situation. Or maybe you back away and they jump in your truck and take off avoiding the deadly force.

My main point being that no where in any states laws does it say that deadly force can only be used equivalently knife to knife/gun to gun/machete to machete.

Deadly force is deadly force whether it's knife vs gun, chainsaw vs machete, or bare knuckles vs bare knuckles if the individual situation calls for it.

 

[Nick87]

Those are the same guys at my local range with their ARs propped on the 30 round mag like a bipod frustrated cause they can’t keep groups at 25 yards with optics.

Maybe 10 years ago my dad was helping me finish baling a field on the 4th of July, hotter than hell. Two guys totally decked out in tactical gear on the neighboring property were carrying ar's and pistols past. I waved no big deal doing some shooting on the fourth I figured. Little while later I see a few puffs of dust popping up across the field right in line with my dad in the other tractor. Took me a minute to put it all together. I road geared that baler across to where I last saw those guys hopped the fence and lost my shit on them worse than i ever have in my life spuddering insults and sentence fragments. There backstop was a pile of branches and what looked like yard clippings etc. About knee to thigh high. My old man still oblivious raking hay about 200 yards right in line with there backstop in the distance. They were dumb founded that the bullets past through there backstop. Still makes me cringe.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Those are the same guys at my local range with their ARs propped on the 30 round mag like a bipod frustrated cause they can’t keep groups at 25 yards with optics.

Actually, a 30 round magazine makes a very effective monopod for prone shooting. What’s really dumb and ineffective is gripping the front of the mag well for offhand shooting.

 

[geetar]

Actually, a 30 round magazine makes a very effective monopod for prone shooting. What’s really dumb and ineffective is gripping the front of the mag well for offhand shooting.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

You can legally draw a gun and point it at someone if they're approaching you with a knife in a threatening manner and/or you have reason to believe the mean to do you harm.

....especially when they're trying stab you and steal your sweet blue Raptor.

The quoted law requires that you exhaust all other options before using deadly force and pulling the trigger. I'd suggest giving verbal commands and trying to get back into your sweet truck and drive away. However if that doesn't work out then you may find yourself in a justified deadly force situation. Or maybe you back away and they jump in your truck and take off avoiding the deadly force.

My main point being that no where in any states laws does it say that deadly force can only be used equivalently knife to knife/gun to gun/machete to machete.

Deadly force is deadly force whether it's knife vs gun, chainsaw vs machete, or bare knuckles vs bare knuckles if the individual situation calls for it.

That's fair, probably* not a menacing issue.

My thought was the ad seemed to be insinuating that if someone walked towards you with a knife that you could shoot them, not just pull up on them. With a knife you have more retreat options then someone with a gun at a similar range, my point was not that weapons must be equivalent but that retreat ability/threats of bodily harm differ depending on the context.

I think the main thing I was trying to convey, is that there are some instances where no questions would be asked about the legality of force being used. There are others, where it's definitely illegal, and a few where it's grey. In those grey areas it's probably justified but you might be charged and the court may have to decide. Given the legal environment of 2021, I would recommend to the marketing department of any firearm company to only depict the first category of force being applied, if at all. Sporting and hunting adds are fine, personal defense in our current environment is more open to litigation, if you are going to run an add maybe show it to an attorney and see what they think.

I don't think that company will have any issue, but I could see it in specific media markets.

*State laws and cases are wildly variable

 

[Ben Lamb]

For our collective consideration:

This is the kind of stuff that juries will be looking at on these cases.

 

[4ohSick]

Seems like some folks have all the answers and some folks are perfectly fine with limitations on their freedoms. Personally, I like seeing folks exercising their constitutional freedoms no matter how they’re dressed. May not be my cup of tea, but I support their right to do so.

For a second I lost track of the thread and thought, "How'd we get on the subject of Pride parades?"

 

[jt13]

For our collective consideration:

This is the kind of stuff that juries will be looking at on these cases.

"Protect your hearing while defending your privacy by committing property damage"

They must've been really struggling on selling that 12ga suppressor to need to reach out to the anarchist crowd

 

[Ben Lamb]

"Protect your hearing while defending your privacy by committing property damage"

They must've been really struggling on selling that 12ga suppressor to need to reach out to the anarchist crowd

Shoot down police drones with your federally licensed class III AOW and let the BATFE come to your home!

 

[Gerald Martin]

For our collective consideration:

This is the kind of stuff that juries will be looking at on these cases.

Where can I get some rad boots like he’s wearing? They would be perfect footwear for a day of baby seal clubbing or kitten stomping.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Where can I get some rad boots like he’s wearing? They would be perfect footwear for a day of baby seal clubbing or kitten stomping.

 

[Gerald Martin]

So cute. But can you really tell the difference between a kitty and a Flirkin?

 

[Ben Lamb]

So cute. But can you really tell the difference between a kitty and a Flirkin?

Yes. yes I can.

Cats are evil. Flerkins aren't. It's in the scent glands, but you have to get real close to sense the difference.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I just thought of a great marketing plan. Baby seal moccasins with a black rifle logo.
For a gentle start for a lazy morning for Tactical Chad.

Paired with Black Rifle Coffee (which is actually pretty good) and a hand thrown mug from @Ben Lamb.

That my friends sounds like impeccable style.