It's time to do away with landowner tags enough is enough

[JM77]

I wont keep going around and around with you but in my unit is a 0 point draw unit. Even you, a common man can get a tag every year. You can even hunt a bull, every year. ( I save them for you by not shooting them). I just simply make it easier for some less fortunate who cant afford hunting or want a safe place to hunt away from all the crazies running quads and shooing at everything that moves.

I guess I should save my alfalfa and hay for my cattle this year as we are having one of the biggest snowfalls of the decade. Ill just let "your" public land trust elk starve to death.

Did you remove your profile picture of you with a big bull for any particular reason?

 

[Elkmagnet]

Did you remove your profile picture of you with a big bull for any particular reason?

Donated it to ASPCA

 

[belshawelk]

For a few reasons:

If I get a unit wide tag, then I cant get LOP tags. You only get one tag per year in Oregon. Even with my two LOP tags, I can only harvest one elk. I do not got an elk every year.

The argument is more in response to people who feel landowners should not be able to get tags or they are spoiled. I have a buddy who owns a piece of prime winter range habitat. He can get LOP tags about every third year for his property but the elk are not there typically until after hunting season. He feeds them all winter even though he has a very rare opportunity to hunt on his property. His unit is a trophy unit where getting tags is tougher. He does this because he is a true hunter concerned about our elk herds, he hunts mostly on public lands. Should he not be rewarded for feeding several hundred elk all winter so others can benefit?

I used to have no problem letting anyone hunt on my property for free just as long as they are respectful. Its not the case anymore. They cut my fences, leave trash and damage the ground. Even running 4 wheels drives up my creek which is steel head spawning waters.

There needs to be a middle ground and respect on both sides. I pay several thousand dollars a year that goes specifically to help elk and deer herds. Hundreds and hundreds of elk will dies every year if they do not have private lands like mine and my buddies to eat on all winter. Just don't bash us. Some of us are doing good. Some public hunters are doing bad.

 

[Elkmagnet]

So you want your friends to receive them well you friends need to get some late season antlerless depredation tags if things are so terrible. None of this has anything to do with hunting bulls unit wide.

 

[belshawelk]

I never said anything about hunting bulls unit wide. I have a choice of either a cow tag or a bull tag, they are not hair tags. I only get cow tags. You must be someone fixated with antlers and not hunting. Hence the reason I removed my picture. Antlers don't impress me. Hunters who are conservationists do, hunters who help get new hunters into our sport do, hunters who volunteer and donate for organizations like RMEF and OHA do. Like I said, I dont have to feed them and improve habitat for them, but I do because it makes a difference.

Depredation tags would be nice of they offered them. We don't see elk as a problem, we see them as a valuable resource that we ALL own. We landowners are just paying some the bills, so others can enjoy. You could cut some slack, next time you or your buddies hunt in Oregon it maybe my land your asking to cut thru or hunt on.

I guess will just disagree on the value of what some private landowners do. Just like we disagree on what some public land hunters do.

Ill quit trying to convince people of the value of LOP tags for landowners if you start sending checks to pay for the very habitat that keeps your elk healthy.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I never said anything about hunting bulls unit wide. I have a choice of either a cow tag or a bull tag, they are not hair tags. I only get cow tags.

I apologise for my assumption. Please stop trying to seem holier than thou.

Like I said, I dont have to feed them and improve habitat for them, but I do because it makes a difference.

Depredation tags would be nice of they offered them. We don't see elk as a problem, we see them as a valuable resource that we ALL own. We landowners are just paying some the bills, so others can enjoy. .

If I do something because "it's the right thing to do" I don't expect anything in return (unit wide lap tags) and I never humble brag about it on the internet (most of what you have typed).

Ill quit trying to convince people of the value of LOP tags for landowners if you start sending checks to pay for the very habitat that keeps your elk healthy.

Need me to release my federal tax returns?

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

This isn't as at how this works in CO either... my wifes family has a ranch in a limited draw area and you still have to draw as a land owner but it bacially just improves your chances and it is transferable... basically they can get one 2nd season deer tag a year which they always give to friends and family. For 4th season they basically can draw in 5-6 years instead of 8 plus. The regs are more complex and nuanced then this but the idea that someone with a big ranch can get a tag for the best unit in the best season every year isn't the reality for most landowners. Further the whole program provides incentive for landowners to maintain their property as habit, which means more deer on public lands that are adjacent. Probably also helps landowners from getting resentful and poaching when they live in units where they otherwise would never get a chance to hunt because the unit is managed as a trophy unit.

I kinda get frustrated when guys out east who hunt the west complain about landowner tags because I'm almost certain these same people are hunting white tail on there property back home and would be pissed if their state decided to manage their unit as a trophy unit and said they could never hunt there own land more than once in their life. Put yourself in other people's shoes. Yes some bad apples exploit the system but over all I think it works.

 

[belshawelk]

Chest bump! High five!
Unfortinatly none of this entitles you to more elk tags. Nor is any of it relevant.
We could all come up with reasons we are "special" and deserve more tags.
The reality is you already receive tags annually to hunt animals held in public trust in a limited unit that takes the public years to draw. Instead of being satisfied you say this.

So you believe you are entitled to be in front of the common man at the head of the line. So that you can hunt the public's animals on public ground. Meanwhile the commoners can squabble for the leftovers.
Philanthropy aside what am I missing?

Oh boy, Oregon for 2020 is going to allow a general season OTC tags for cow elk on private land in certain units above objective. All you need is permission to hunt on the private property. I guess its arrogance if I allow hunters ( for me its first time hunters or youth) to come out and hunt on my property for a great opportunity to harvest their first elk. I guess the money and time to improve habitat I put into my property didn't have anything to do with the over population? God I wish I could chest bump and high five myself!!

 

[Elkmagnet]

I guess the money and time to improve habitat I put into my property didn't have anything to do with the over population?

You see the problem with everyone thinking they are special is.... entitlement.

God I wish I could chest bump and high five myself!!

You just did...then I air fived you from the ID/OR boarder!

. Antlers don't impress me. Hunters who are conservationists do, hunters who help get new hunters into our sport do, hunters who volunteer and donate for organizations like RMEF and OHA do. Like I said, I dont have to feed them and improve habitat for them, but I do because it makes a difference.

So how much time and work do I have to donate before I am entitled to my first elk tag in my home county?

.
I guess will just disagree on the value of what some private landowners do. Just like we disagree on what some public land hunters do.

I don't think we disagree on the value of what private landowners do I think we just disagree on what they should be entitled to.

.
Ill quit trying to convince people of the value of LOP tags for landowners if you start sending checks to pay for the very habitat that keeps your elk healthy.

Have you or any corp/llc you own ever received any farm subsidies or agricultural tax benefits? Depredation funds?
Government loans? Public grazing rights?
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services?
How about the other landowners in your area any of them?
Who do you think paid for that?

This year we have cut checks to Rmef,trcp,ida, about to send one out to bha.
Also we contributed a lot to usda, blm, usfws,usfs and a couple of others.

Hell part of my hunting license fees went to buy pivots and irrigation for ag another part went to pay crop depredation. Then I get to watch my friends in ag sell elk tags for (8-10k)in a unit ive lived my whole life and have never drawn.


Why don't I feel entitled!?
We are all "special" some of us just feel entitled to more fairness than others and some are just plain greedy.

 

[belshawelk]

You see the problem with everyone thinking they are special is.... entitlement.


You just did...then I air fived you from the ID/OR boarder!



So how much time and work do I have to donate before I am entitled to my first elk tag in my home county?




I don't think we disagree on the value of what private landowners do I think we just disagree on what they should be entitled to.


Have you or any corp/llc you own ever received any farm subsidies or agricultural tax benefits? Depredation funds?
Government loans? Public grazing rights?
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services?
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services?
Who do you think paid for that?

This year we have cut checks to Rmef,trcp,ida, about to send one out to bha.
Also we contributed a lot to usda, blm, usfws,usfs and a couple of others.

Hell part of my hunting license fees went to buy pivots and irrigation for ag another part went to pay crop depredation. Then I get to watch my friends in ag sell elk tags for (8-10k)in a unit ive lived my whole life and have never drawn.


Why don't I feel entitled!?
We are all "special" some of us just feel entitled to more fairness than others and some are just plain greedy.

Have you or any corp/llc you own ever received any farm subsidies or agricultural tax benefits? Depredation funds? NOPE NOT A PENNY
Government loans? Public grazing rights? NOPE NOT A PENNY
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services? NOPE NONE
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services? SURE THE GUY BELOW ME OWNS 4000 ACRES AND IS A CATTLE FARMER BUT NOT A HUNTER. EVERY YEAR THE ELK EAT HIS HAY
Who do you think paid for that? me JUST LIKE EVERY ONE ELSE. IN FACT I GUARANTEE YOU I PAY MORE IN PROPERTY TAXES THAN 90% OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM, BUT THATS MY FAULT FOR LIVING IN OREGON, AND YOULL SAY BECAUSE I AM ENTITLED.
This year we have cut checks to Rmef,trcp,ida, about to send one out to bha. I DONATE VERY HEAVILY TO RMEF AND OHA
Hell part of my hunting license fees went to buy pivots and irrigation for ag another part went to pay crop depredation. Then I get to watch my friends in ag sell elk tags for (8-10k)in a unit ive lived my whole life and have never drawn. I HAVE NEVER SOLD AN ELK TAG IN MY LIFE. IN FACT IN OREGON YOU CANT.

Look lets agree on what we can and try and understand the other point of views. i buy public non-resident tags every year in other states and hunt public land. i only draw every few years in CO in non trophy units. I have been saving preference points in CO for 15 years and hope someday i will draw a unit I want. I see your point and understand your perspective cause I too am a public land hunter. just please don't generally try to lump all private land owners as the boogey man. Some of are are good guys.

 

[Elkmagnet]

First lets remember who revived a old tired thread to cast shade.
Fyi Idaho doesn't allow the sale of landowner tag either. This made the problem worse now landowners lease the hunting rights and gift the tag. This has locked many acres of public access around here.
I never wanted to lump every landowner together. I will tell you that I grew up farming 1000ac of owyhee county with 300+ deer on it and nobody ever felt entitled to more tags than the general public. Its a 2pt gen season with a big buck draw. (Ive never drawn a rifle tag here)The tags were available but never filed for.
We just applied in the draw like the commeners do.
My friends and community are not "boogeymen" They are just taking advantage of a shit law that needs tweaking. The only people who argue otherwise are those who are benefiting from it and most of them will admit it in a private conversation with a friend.

Guess what? Of course landowners do great things for wildlife but the wildlife was there before you. They eat too you are not entitled to something for letting nature exist its your duty as a steward to the land.
The problem landowners are not allowing public hunting, hoarding elk on their ranches due to the low pressure, recieving depredation funds, and getting lap tags.
They are abusing the system.
There is a guy here that will sell you a 1 day trespass for $10,000 and give you a tag that is good until wide. He doesn't allow public hunting.
He doesn't want the animals scared off of his property.

I have stated that I don't have a problem with cow/doe tags or the opening of a season on private land to address depredation. As long as it is good only on private land.
So I have no problems with what you say you are doing. Whin it comes to my experience with landowner tags you are the exception so lets not pretend you are the rule.
The problem is when you add horns and limited tags unit wide in places that most will never draw.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

I qualify for landowner tags in Oregon. With 160 ac we're allowed 2 tags, one can go to non-family. We've rarely used 2, sometimes 1 but usually none. I have a wildlfe area I keep cows out of and have planted winter browse and let thermal cover grow. I allow predator hunting and have had a trapper work the place. There's a big outfit behind me that has done extensive habitat improvements, fenced riparian areas and helicopter gunning. Without these pockets of sanctuary mule deer would be in worse shape than they currently are and that's pretty bad.
Anytime there's an abuse to the landowner program somebody starts railing about shutting down the whole program. Just like anti- gun or anti-hunting groups when a lunatic goes off.

 

[bushman13]

Maybe stop allocating the tags from the same pool? Have landowners and everyone else apply for tags as normal. Use crop damage type permits instead. That way you hit the problem at the source and the waters are less muddy. I'm guessing it would also remove the business aspect of selling LO tags, which would go over like a lead balloon I'm sure.

I'll agree that there are areas where the number of LO tags issued in a handful of Wyoming units for elk, deer, and pronghorn is out of line. I have had numerous discussions with a lot of people on how to address that...haven't come up with a solution yet, but, we're still talking.

Did you read the part about being "reluctantly" in favor of landowner tags?

IMO, it makes sense to issue a non-transferable landowner tag to a landowner in exchange for them providing habitat to the States wildlife. Its either that or sportsmen pay for game damage.

I'll agree that there are areas where the number of LO tags issued in a handful of Wyoming units for elk, deer, and pronghorn is out of line. I have had numerous discussions with a lot of people on how to address that...haven't come up with a solution yet, but, we're still talking.

What I am absolutely opposed to is transferable LO tags and allowing them to be bought and sold. I will/would fight that all day long, with everything I have, to see that never happens in Wyoming.

Big difference, IMO.

BTW, good luck on acquiring a LO tag for Arizona.

 

[Buffs35]

You see the problem with everyone thinking they are special is.... entitlement.


You just did...then I air fived you from the ID/OR boarder!



So how much time and work do I have to donate before I am entitled to my first elk tag in my home county?




I don't think we disagree on the value of what private landowners do I think we just disagree on what they should be entitled to.


Have you or any corp/llc you own ever received any farm subsidies or agricultural tax benefits? Depredation funds?
Government loans? Public grazing rights?
Was your area added to the electric grid via rural power development services?
How about the other landowners in your area any of them?
Who do you think paid for that?

This year we have cut checks to Rmef,trcp,ida, about to send one out to bha.
Also we contributed a lot to usda, blm, usfws,usfs and a couple of others.

Hell part of my hunting license fees went to buy pivots and irrigation for ag another part went to pay crop depredation. Then I get to watch my friends in ag sell elk tags for (8-10k)in a unit ive lived my whole life and have never drawn.


Why don't I feel entitled!?
We are all "special" some of us just feel entitled to more fairness than others and some are just plain greedy.

You must be fun at parties.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Maybe stop allocating the tags from the same pool? Have landowners and everyone else apply for tags as normal. Use crop damage type permits instead. That way you hit the problem at the source and the waters are less muddy. I'm guessing it would also remove the business aspect of selling LO tags, which would go over like a lead balloon I'm sure.

I'll agree that there are areas where the number of LO tags issued in a handful of Wyoming units for elk, deer, and pronghorn is out of line. I have had numerous discussions with a lot of people on how to address that...haven't come up with a solution yet, but, we're still talking.

I wonder about just issuing more PLO tags instead of landowner tags? I'm behind the idea of issuing tags to private land owners to hunt their lands/outfit them... but the having landowner tags that are unit wide is a bit... I dk... just seems like a bit much.

 

[ZBB]

It’s crazy how different each state is on this. In South Dakota 50% of the available tags go to landowners. Whatever they don’t take, rolls over into the draw for everyone else. With the exception of sheep and goats, when they have a season. They also don’t have to wait 9 years after drawing an elk tag to even apply. I don’t care for landowner tags, but I guarantee if I won the lottery I’d change my tune.

 

[Elkmagnet]

You must be fun at parties.

Mom doesn't let me stay out late.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Mom doesn't let me stay out late.

Allllll righty then... you have a nice day Jeffrey.

 

[IdahoPotato]

First lets remember who revived a old tired thread to cast shade.
Fyi Idaho doesn't allow the sale of landowner tag either. This made the problem worse now landowners lease the hunting rights and gift the tag. This has locked many acres of public access around here.
I never wanted to lump every landowner together. I will tell you that I grew up farming 1000ac of owyhee county with 300+ deer on it and nobody ever felt entitled to more tags than the general public. Its a 2pt gen season with a big buck draw. (Ive never drawn a rifle tag here)The tags were available but never filed for.
We just applied in the draw like the commeners do.
My friends and community are not "boogeymen" They are just taking advantage of a shit law that needs tweaking. The only people who argue otherwise are those who are benefiting from it and most of them will admit it in a private conversation with a friend.

Guess what? Of course landowners do great things for wildlife but the wildlife was there before you. They eat too you are not entitled to something for letting nature exist its your duty as a steward to the land.
The problem landowners are not allowing public hunting, hoarding elk on their ranches due to the low pressure, recieving depredation funds, and getting lap tags.
They are abusing the system.
There is a guy here that will sell you a 1 day trespass for $10,000 and give you a tag that is good until wide. He doesn't allow public hunting.
He doesn't want the animals scared off of his property.

I have stated that I don't have a problem with cow/doe tags or the opening of a season on private land to address depredation. As long as it is good only on private land.
So I have no problems with what you say you are doing. Whin it comes to my experience with landowner tags you are the exception so lets not pretend you are the rule.
The problem is when you add horns and limited tags unit wide in places that most will never draw.

I didn't know landowners sold tresspass rights for a tag in Idaho. Would you be willing to share any names?

 

[Elkmagnet]

Landowners sell you the right to trespass and gift you the tag out of um... kindness.
Its very common no need to name individuals. Im told it is legal and it appears they are free to do so.