Iowa SF255 NR tags going to outfitters.

[Joseph Peterson]

Give me a F'ing break, I'm sure before said landowner bought it it was just a barren wasteland devoid of all things living from bugs to deer. Until he started feeding, watering, and housing WILDlife.

Tell that to the ranchers in Colorado who just had wolves turned loose on them. The ranch referred to in New Mexico had no elk when he bought it from his father in law. He now has to run generators to keep his solar wells pumping all night to water the elk as well as his cows- on his private land. He now has one full time employee just to fix the fences. Tell that to the farmer in north Idaho who did not have elk when his grandfather homesteaded the ground and now has documented $20,000 loss due to wintering elk on just one 80 acre field. You know, one person's experience or knowledge is not infinite.

 

[Joseph Peterson]

What ever happened to wildlife being a condition of land ownership?

Had a conversation a week ago with a WY game and fish employee who made the statement that landowners want to be compensated for everything wildlife, from field mice to ferrets to elk to grizzly bears.

It's out of control.

I am not talking about depredation payments but the ability to recover some of those costs directly from license holders, ie; the public hunter.

 

[Nick87]

Tell that to the ranchers in Colorado who just had wolves turned loose on them. The ranch referred to in New Mexico had no elk when he bought it from his father in law. He now has to run generators to keep his solar wells pumping all night to water the elk as well as his cows- on his private land. He now has one full time employee just to fix the fences. Tell that to the farmer in north Idaho who did not have elk when his grandfather homesteaded the ground and now has documented $20,000 loss due to wintering elk on just one 80 acre field. You know, one person's experience or knowledge is not infinite.

We never had deer on my grandparents farm 40 years ago. Now we do. We don't charge them any rent. Never had bobcats on the family farm down south either until a few years back. Nobody owes us any rent on those either.

 

[BuzzH]

Tell that to the ranchers in Colorado who just had wolves turned loose on them. The ranch referred to in New Mexico had no elk when he bought it from his father in law. He now has to run generators to keep his solar wells pumping all night to water the elk as well as his cows- on his private land. He now has one full time employee just to fix the fences. Tell that to the farmer in north Idaho who did not have elk when his grandfather homesteaded the ground and now has documented $20,000 loss due to wintering elk on just one 80 acre field. You know, one person's experience or knowledge is not infinite.

Sounds like those Idaho and New Mexico ranchers need a few more wolves around to take care of those pesky elk.

 

[BuzzH]

I am not talking about depredation payments but the ability to recover some of those costs directly from license holders, ie; the public hunter.

I'm not talking about depredation payments either. They don't need transferable tags, they can lease or charge trespass fees for the hunting.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I am not familiar with Iowa.

This is a tough topic but my sympathies are strongly with the landowner hosting the public wildlife often to his detriment. He should be given the best chance of gain since he feeds,waters and provides homes for the publics trespassing wildlife.

In areas where farming/ranching business margins are slim, there is an obvious stakeholder aspect w/ the landowner that deserves careful attention. I’ll agree with you there.

In Iowa farmground is 15-20k/acre for the good stuff, less for pasture and hay. Farmers are no longer scratching out a living here - income and assets are significantly above average compared to other residents. Farm sizes are large with the endless march towards consolidation.

Let’s say that tomorrow Iowa sold unlimited quota either-sex deer tags to non-residents. Here’s what would happen:

1. Everyone with hunting land would see a boost in their land value. The rich get richer.
2. Resident hunters lose access to private land, as non-residents snap up a huge portion of recreational land to hunt or lease.
3. Public land hunting quality is destroyed.

Run this through the public trust test: landowners win, and everyone else loses. Resident hunts lose big, as noted above. Everyone else loses too as landownership in our state transitions to nonresidents, which erodes communities. See Montana as a case study.

The current balance among wildlife stakeholders and beneficiaries in Iowa is good. Can we please stop trying to fix things that are not broken?

 

[Nick87]

View attachment 311774

In areas where farming/ranching business margins are slim, there is an obvious stakeholder aspect w/ the landowner that deserves careful attention. I’ll agree with you there.

In Iowa farmground is 15-20k/acre for the good stuff, less for pasture and hay. Farmers are no longer scratching out a living here - income and assets are significantly above average compared to other residents. Farm sizes are large with the endless march towards consolidation.

Let’s say that tomorrow Iowa sold unlimited quota either-sex deer tags to non-residents. Here’s what would happen:

1. Everyone with hunting land would see a boost in their land value. The rich get richer.
2. Resident hunters lose access to private land, as non-residents snap up a huge portion of recreational land to hunt or lease.
3. Public land hunting quality is destroyed.

Run this through the public trust test: landowners win, and everyone else loses. Resident hunts lose big, as noted above. Everyone else loses too as landownership in our state transitions to nonresidents, which erodes communities. See Montana as a case study.

The current balance among wildlife stakeholders and beneficiaries in Iowa is good. Can we please stop trying to fix things that are not broken?

Nailed it.

 

[Joseph Peterson]

View attachment 311774

In areas where farming/ranching business margins are slim, there is an obvious stakeholder aspect w/ the landowner that deserves careful attention. I’ll agree with you there.

In Iowa farmground is 15-20k/acre for the good stuff, less for pasture and hay. Farmers are no longer scratching out a living here - income and assets are significantly above average compared to other residents. Farm sizes are large with the endless march towards consolidation.

Let’s say that tomorrow Iowa sold unlimited quota either-sex deer tags to non-residents. Here’s what would happen:

1. Everyone with hunting land would see a boost in their land value. The rich get richer.
2. Resident hunters lose access to private land, as non-residents snap up a huge portion of recreational land to hunt or lease.
3. Public land hunting quality is destroyed.

Run this through the public trust test: landowners win, and everyone else loses. Resident hunts lose big, as noted above. Everyone else loses too as landownership in our state transitions to nonresidents, which erodes communities. See Montana as a case study.

The current balance among wildlife stakeholders and beneficiaries in Iowa is good. Can we please stop trying to fix things that are not broken?

I guess this is why wildlife belongs to the states citizens, so it can be managed in a way best suited to the particular state. Definitely not a one size fits all proposition. Thank you.

 

[Gellar]

Here is the schedule for this legislative session. As noted a bill must be out of committee and in front of the whole chamber before February 15, they then have until March 15 to get it out of committee in that chamber.

 

[Gellar]

Here is what I am working on for a letter to the members of the Natural Resource Committee in response to SF255. I stole a lot of lines and tidbits from the Fresh Tracks Weekly as well as other things that were mentioned in this thread. Admittedly, I am not very smart and therefore am not a wordsmith. If anyone wants to chime in on how I should change my argument against sf 255 I am open to suggestions. Looking at the Bill tracker there has not been any action since the subcommittee recommended sending the bill to the full committee. https://legiscan.com/IA/bill/SF255/2023

The 1842 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Martin v Waddell established what is known as the Public Trust Doctrine. The Public Trust Doctrine established the ownership of wildlife to be held in trust by the states, including Iowa, with the residents of the state as beneficiaries of the trust. Reserving 500 nonresident whitetail deer hunting licenses to be used solely by outfitters disregards the Public Trust Doctrine. By reserving these nonresident licenses to outfitters established to provide hunting services to nonresidents of the state of Iowa you are enabling these outfitters to potentially lease private property for the sole purpose of hunting to benefit nonresident hunters of the state of Iowa. The leasing of private land in Iowa will only benefit a select group of beneficiaries, hunting outfitters. The leasing of private land will negatively affect the majority of beneficiaries of the public trust to which you have been entrusted by displacing resident hunters from access to private land. The displacement of resident hunters through this bill will push many residents to use public land to hunt. Only 2% of land in Iowa is open to the public with even less open to public hunting. The increased presence of resident hunters on Iowa’s public land will harm all beneficiaries of wildlife. Nonresident hunters are not beneficiaries of the Public Trust and therefore should not benefit from the reservation of guaranteed nonresident deer tags to outfitters.

 

[Pucky Freak]

4 more bills:

Shoot unlimited wild animals in your backyard

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

DNR restrictions on receiving land donations. The bill is poorly-worded, because “competitive” is not defined. In theory, public land could not be added to IA if first purchased by a conservation or land trust group, because the price/acre paid was “competitive”.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

Anti-whistleblower bill. The context here is 90% of complaints to the DNR are businesses violating clean air and clean water laws. DNR enforcement actions are so common they are posted weekly. The idea behind the bill is to intimidate persons who would report pollution violations so businesses could be less accountable to environmental standards.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

The house version of ATV/ORV in state parks. Manufacturers aggressively push sales, but the reality is that there are just very few interesting places to legally use ATV’s in our state, so illegal use is rampant on public lands.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

 

[trackerbacker]

Anti-whistleblower bill. The context here is 90% of complaints to the DNR are businesses violating clean air and clean water laws. DNR enforcement actions are so common they are posted weekly. The idea behind the bill is to intimidate persons who would report pollution violations so businesses could be less accountable to environmental standards.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

Idk, seems to me if I'm accused by a coward who hides behind a closed door and "anon", I should have the right to face my cowardly accuser/instigator.

Then again, I'm not pro.gov and I don't believe any .gov when they say "someone blah blah blah randomly blah blah blah so you'll need to answer my blah blah blah or blah blah blah".

Anon whistle-blowers are the grown up version of tattletales with mommy issues. The accused and accuser should both be public, or all for naught.

 

[Gellar]

Idk, seems to me if I'm accused by a coward who hides behind a closed door and "anon", I should have the right to face my cowardly accuser/instigator.

Then again, I'm not pro.gov and I don't believe any .gov when they say "someone blah blah blah randomly blah blah blah so you'll need to answer my blah blah blah or blah blah blah".

Anon whistle-blowers are the grown up version of tattletales with mommy issues. The accused and accuser should both be public, or all for naught.

This bill would include anyone reporting hunting and fishing violations. The amount of reports and tips on the TIP hotline for such violations would go down drastically.

 

[Gellar]

4 more bills:

Shoot unlimited wild animals in your backyard

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

DNR restrictions on receiving land donations. The bill is poorly-worded, because “competitive” is not defined. In theory, public land could not be added to IA if first purchased by a conservation or land trust group, because the price/acre paid was “competitive”.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

Anti-whistleblower bill. The context here is 90% of complaints to the DNR are businesses violating clean air and clean water laws. DNR enforcement actions are so common they are posted weekly. The idea behind the bill is to intimidate persons who would report pollution violations so businesses could be less accountable to environmental standards.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

The house version of ATV/ORV in state parks. Manufacturers aggressively push sales, but the reality is that there are just very few interesting places to legally use ATV’s in our state, so illegal use is rampant on public lands.

Iowa Legislature - BillBook

Information pertaining to the Iowa Legislature as well as the Executive and Judicial branch in as much as they relate to the legislative branch

www.legis.iowa.gov

Here are my quick thoughts on these bills.

Hf2086 Nuisance animals
This is so ripe for abuse. I am sure that it is intended for raccoons, opossums, and skunks eating your dog food on the porch. But I can see people shooting deer in their yard in September. In my experience if you have a raccoon or opossum that is causing havoc around your home a quick call to your local C.O. and they will understand.

Hf2104 Acquisition of land by DNR.
They try to pass something like this bill every year. Their argument will be something along the lines of the DNR is running up the price of land and not allowing farmers to compete for the purchase of said land. Farmers are the ones running up the cost of land. The DNR is not trying to buy prime ag ground. Most of what the DNR is interested in is too steep, too wet, or has some other thing going on to not be conducive to farming.

Hf2118 ATV use
The DNR enforcement of ATVs/UTVs on roadways in Iowa is nill. They have been having a dispute with the DOT on who gets the funding for the license sales. The ATV/UTV manufacturers association is ripe with money and they keep pushing these bills. The law currently says you may only drive an ATV/UTV on paved primary roads in the most direct route to a secondary road. Most state parks that I have been to are not on a gravel road and this bill would be in direct conflict with that law. The biggest argument the DNR has right now is that a lot of their land was purchased using Pittman Robertson funds or some other federal funding source and often that funding comes with the stipulations that ATVs/UTVs are not allowed in these areas.

SSB (Senate Study Bill)3103 Anonymous Public Complaints Bill

Anytime these bills come forward you can almost guarantee that Sweeney will be a sponsor. And to have her as the chair of the Natural Resource Committee is wrong in more ways than one can type. Like PuckyFreak said most of the enforcement actions are illegal discharge or something similar. This means that if a dairy worker witnesses even a small leak of manure from the pit and the owner/operator chooses to cover up the violation and not report it, the dairy worker could no longer be anonymous when reporting. No doubt they would lose their job the next day if they reported such violations. Or more in a hunting or fishing context it could look something like this: A large group of deer hunters is doing a deer drive. Leroy and Johnny are communicating via CB to warn each other of deer moving. Timmy does not think this is a fair chase and ethical. He calls the C.O. and reports it. Now Timmy has to give the C.O. all his information and the C.O. tells the violaters who told him. Because of this Timmy decides to let it slide and not report the violation.

 

[trackerbacker]

This bill would include anyone reporting hunting and fishing violations. The amount of reports and tips on the TIP hotline for such violations would go down drastically.

I guess I just don't understand the need to be anonymous. I'd like to know if it's just a crazy neighbor who always calls or it's just a rowdy group and such.

 

[BrentD]

I guess I just don't understand the need to be anonymous. I'd like to know if it's just a crazy neighbor who always calls or it's just a rowdy group and such.

If you don't understand then reread Gellar's post another 27 times. It could not be said more clearly.

The current party in power is doing its dead level best to return Iowa rivers back into sewers. This along with a host of other things hostile to conservation makes me wonder how the hell people can continue to vote for them. But they do.

It is going to get far, FAR worse.

 

[Gellar]

I guess I just don't understand the need to be anonymous. I'd like to know if it's just a crazy neighbor who always calls or it's just a rowdy group and such.

Of course, the violator wants to know who the person was that tipped off the authorities to their wrongdoings. We will go back to our scenario from above.
Timmy decides to call the C.O. and makes a report of Johnny and Leroy using a CB to let each other know of the movement of deer. The C.O. investigates and writes Leroy and Johnny a ticket. Because of this new law, the C.O. had to tell Leroy and Johnny who gave him the tip. Because of the ticket Leroy and Johnny have to pay a fine and they also lose their hunting equipment and hunting privileges for one year in Iowa, and per the Interstate Wildlife Violaters Compact, they subsequently lose their hunting rights in all the other states as well. 2 weeks later Johnny and Leroy see Timmy at the bar. Johnny is mad because he was going to go on his first ever out-of-state hunting trip next fall, but now he cannot. They know Timmy was the one who tipped the Conservation Officer off that they were using CB radios. After having a few beers Timmy goes outside to smoke a cigarette. Leroy and Johnny follow Timmy outside and beat the crap out of Timmy.

 

[Pucky Freak]

environmental and wildlife Violations harm all of us and it’s everyone’s responsibility to report them. “Who is accusing me?” is a classic diversion tactic to avoid accountability. Everyone should welcome DNR inquiry because they’re protecting our collective resources.

IA DNR is a capable organization with a solid reputation. They ably identify the few sour apples, I.e dishonest reporters, and elect not to investigate their ongoing bogus claims. Again, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken.

What is broken is our state’s embarrassingly poor water quality.

 

[trackerbacker]

Of course, the violator wants to know who the person was that tipped off the authorities to their wrongdoings. We will go back to our scenario from above.
Timmy decides to call the C.O. and makes a report of Johnny and Leroy using a CB to let each other know of the movement of deer. The C.O. investigates and writes Leroy and Johnny a ticket. Because of this new law, the C.O. had to tell Leroy and Johnny who gave him the tip. Because of the ticket Leroy and Johnny have to pay a fine and they also lose their hunting equipment and hunting privileges for one year in Iowa, and per the Interstate Wildlife Violaters Compact, they subsequently lose their hunting rights in all the other states as well. 2 weeks later Johnny and Leroy see Timmy at the bar. Johnny is mad because he was going to go on his first ever out-of-state hunting trip next fall, but now he cannot. They know Timmy was the one who tipped the Conservation Officer off that they were using CB radios. After having a few beers Timmy goes outside to smoke a cigarette. Leroy and Johnny follow Timmy outside and beat the crap out of Timmy.

environmental and wildlife Violations harm all of us and it’s everyone’s responsibility to report them. “Who is accusing me?” is a classic diversion tactic to avoid accountability. Everyone should welcome DNR inquiry because they’re protecting our collective resources.

IA DNR is a capable organization with a solid reputation. They ably identify the few sour apples, I.e dishonest reporters, and elect not to investigate their ongoing bogus claims. Again, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken.

What is broken is our state’s embarrassingly poor water quality.

Classic "if you have nothing to hide, why won't you let me search" tactic.

Violator or not, if you accuse someone of something nefarious, and aren't strong enough to back it with your name, that should be judged against your credibility regarding the statement.

 

[trackerbacker]

If you don't understand then reread Gellar's post another 27 times. It could not be said more clearly.

I'm sorry. Let me refrain. I don't understand how letting someone hide behind a statement, with minimal veracity, to launch and investigation, and the innocent (remember, innocent) must bear any burden and (presumed) guilt based on anon...with zero repercussions, avenues or nothing.

The current party in power is doing its dead level best to return Iowa rivers back into sewers. This along with a host of other things hostile to conservation makes me wonder how the hell people can continue to vote for them. But they do.

I hear this (along with pucky statements), and know dm metro fairly well enough to know the city complains all the time on nitrate/nitrite levels all the time. But look at iowas aquia site, shows, generally, 1999-2023, much of them sewers...haven't changed...

Beaver, racoon and skunk nitrite/nitrate levels, chosen due to their proximity to des moines and locations.


So, either all the down years are direct causation of which political entity was in place top down, which h I'm presuming you would note as democrat provided you statements made, which i have not match the years to political parties, or its causation/correlation has nearly nothing to do politically.

Ill have to look to see which chemicals specifically increase during which political years of which majority party, that would better reflect the accuracy of your statement that its in direct relationship to republicans.



Scratch that....don't see any direct link to political party affiliations and nitrate/nitrite levels. Damn, what next professor?

Shoot, I should check rivers near codes with higher densities of registered Republicans and look downstream for sensors...surely....

It is going to get far, FAR worse.

I've heard this statement ad infinitum. Remember how after iowa went may issue to shall, then shall to constitutional? Was going to be "blood in the streets for blacks,Hispanics, poor, lgbtqia, wild west style"....

...Yet here we are...

Same thing with suppressors...illegal quiet killings everywhere.........

....still haven't seen it....