375H&H
Well-known member
Do you feel that way about coastal brown bear hunts too? Money flex?
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LCH
Well-known member
There was an old time poster on here from Australia, @havgunwilltravel . He'd do hunts all over the world, diy, sometimes month-long hunts; I assume he still does. He would post up the most fascinating stories, some of the grandest adventures I've read from a modern hunter.
He hunted Africa diy, no outfitter, hired his own trackers/packers/etc., and took some real fine animals, no fences. I believe that there is still some wildness left on the dark continent, although I doubt that I get to experience it personally.
He hunted Africa diy, no outfitter, hired his own trackers/packers/etc., and took some real fine animals, no fences. I believe that there is still some wildness left on the dark continent, although I doubt that I get to experience it personally.
I don’t know anything about coastal brown bear hunts.
375 H & H
The adrenaline level is about the same when a coastal brown bear or lion has you in their sights LOL
Seriously, I love hunting Africa, and Alaska. But staying with the topic at hand, Africa--believe me not an ounce of meat is wasted, regardless of the animal taken, and it goes to folks that need it the most. The money spent helps maintain healthy herd/folige levels, fight poaching, income for a LOT of others--trackers, skinners, bush pilots, hotels, taxidermy, staff ( at all these places ) etc, etc, etc..
As for me putting the meat in "my" freezer, I am o.k. with the meat going to the villagers. I wonder why nobody ever complains about killing 100's of doves a day in Argentina but go crazy about one animal in Africa.
I actually logged on to wish Vikingsguy and his sons all the best on their hunt next week----enjoy and good luck ! What rifles will you be taking ?
The adrenaline level is about the same when a coastal brown bear or lion has you in their sights LOL
Seriously, I love hunting Africa, and Alaska. But staying with the topic at hand, Africa--believe me not an ounce of meat is wasted, regardless of the animal taken, and it goes to folks that need it the most. The money spent helps maintain healthy herd/folige levels, fight poaching, income for a LOT of others--trackers, skinners, bush pilots, hotels, taxidermy, staff ( at all these places ) etc, etc, etc..
As for me putting the meat in "my" freezer, I am o.k. with the meat going to the villagers. I wonder why nobody ever complains about killing 100's of doves a day in Argentina but go crazy about one animal in Africa.
I actually logged on to wish Vikingsguy and his sons all the best on their hunt next week----enjoy and good luck ! What rifles will you be taking ?
I am sooo used to dragging my arse up and down mountains... etc, I think I'm a bit jaded towards hunting these massive animals in Africa. A giraffe, rhino, etc... the open landscape, within a set perimeter - seems a guide(s) takes a few people out, they see a big animal, set up the shooting bi/tripod - they line up a shot while everyone is standing around, BIG BOOM and a second or third and high five.
Now, a kudu or lion type animal on the other hand... that seems to hold a bit more of that, "hunting" setting though as a person who has never experienced a hunt in Africa, I could be missing a larger picture. Maybe they are working their arse off to track these mega animals... I do 100% believe the hunting community is vastly responsible for the conservation efforts. For that alone I 100% support these hunts though for challenge of a, "hunt"... I just don't get that vibe.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Much ado, hers and the media...it starts with the 'viral photo'
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Carl 9.3x62
Well-known member
I would hunt a giraffe in a heart beat if I could afford it. As far as the difficulty/ease, can't be much easier though than pronghorn here in Wyoming.
375H&H
Well-known member
Exactly. It’s pretty easy to see a hero shot of anything killed and think the hunt was easy without having done it.
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
It depends on the species - no different than North America. Bison are conspicuous, pronghorn are visible, but hard to get close, whitetails are mostly active at night, wolves are cagey, etc. For plains game, giraffes, zebra, wildebeest, springbok, and many other antelope species are out in the open and generally approachable with little challenge. You just drive up and shoot them. However, there are layers of challenge for many other species. Some examples - Eland are like ghosts, and rarely seen (more like elk). Duiker are abundant, but hide well and rarely present a shot opportunity. Bushpig are dangerous and can attack the hunter. Baboons are intelligent. Hippos are extremely dangerous, territorial, and attack people.
You can have a safari hunt, even in a fenced area (could be 15-20 square miles or bigger), that only targets challenging species. Most PH's will cater to whatever kind of hunt you want to do. In practice, most hunters have a list of animals they want to bag, most of which are on the "easy" list, and you shoot them one after another. They come home with 10 heads or whatever in 5 days. This is what most people think of when they hear "African hunting safari", but it is far from the only hunting experience available.
For reference, I worked in South Africa in the safari industry for 2 months. In the area I worked there were several medium and large animal species that I never saw despite being afield about 8 hours daily.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Like anything devil is in the details.
AZ elk hunt, 415 inch bull, dude wearing jeans with sneakers, with a suspicious looking fence in the background... money flex...
Doublecluck
Well-known member
She was terrible. They should try questioning my 19 y/o daughter who placed 4 years in speech and debate and is studying environmental science..
I find some of the comments from hunters here and other places on the subject interesting.
There are around 110,000 giraffes in Africa, there are around 70,000 bighorn sheep in North America. Anyone want to speculate what percentage of meat is consumed of the bighorn sheep hunted in North America compared to a “trophy” animal in Africa? To a villager in Africa is a giraffe any different than a elk to an American? If so how?
I have no problem with anyone hunting anything so as long as the population is stable and the species is being managed for sustainability.
Considering the threat from developement and poaching, placing a monetary value on certain species is actually beneficial to their survival. For reference, see every big game species hunted in North America and the North American model of conservation.
Some people watched too many Disney movies..
I find some of the comments from hunters here and other places on the subject interesting.
There are around 110,000 giraffes in Africa, there are around 70,000 bighorn sheep in North America. Anyone want to speculate what percentage of meat is consumed of the bighorn sheep hunted in North America compared to a “trophy” animal in Africa? To a villager in Africa is a giraffe any different than a elk to an American? If so how?
I have no problem with anyone hunting anything so as long as the population is stable and the species is being managed for sustainability.
Considering the threat from developement and poaching, placing a monetary value on certain species is actually beneficial to their survival. For reference, see every big game species hunted in North America and the North American model of conservation.
Some people watched too many Disney movies..
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I’m pickin up what you’re putting down, life ain’t a Disney movie and the animals in Africa there need to have a high value to merely exist, much of which is provided by hunting, but the North American model for wildlife conservation is nothing like what they have going on Africa. A giraffe to a villager is nothing like an elk to us because a villager could never afford the tag that’s put on them. Yeah the villagers get the meat, which is great, but they don’t get to hunt then animals themselves.
Doublecluck
Well-known member
I’m not sure how the economic status of the person pulling the trigger is relevant to rather or not a species should be hunted. There are over a billion people in the world who live on less than a dollar a day, to them you are like a millionaire. To them you pulling the trigger on a whitetail here is just as much a gentleman’s sport as you think a guy in Africa pulling the trigger on a giraffe is. How many million/hundred million Americans couldnt afford to go on a non resident MSG hunt ? Does that mean we shouldn’t hunt them?
Admittedly I don’t know much about game management in African countries. What little I have read in the past seems to suggest some countries manage better than others and several have sustainable/successful management going on and others are seeing the near extinction of some species thru habitat destruction and poaching.
That said, logic would suggest that it would be wiser to use a science/value based approach to game management rather than a western cultural emotion based approach.
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I’m saying Wildlife in Africa have been privatized, Wildlife under the North American model are held in public trust. Our system and theirs are totally different. Using our model as a reference would not, and probably should not, apply to Africa in the slightest.
1976
Active member
I would love to go to africa, in all my research and discussions with PHs from South Africa to Tanzania the actual cost for a plains game and maybe one special trophy critter is not that out of line with North America, one could say even cheaper, compared to guided hunts here, the expensive part is getting there for the most part. As far as the meat argument its illegal to bring it back, and from friends that have gone across the pond one of the highlights is seeing the locals receive the meat from harvested animals, these people live in poverty and meat is a treat, literally. And as far as the money thing, you people that constantly talk about it, you need to think about it, 1100$ MT, 440 I believe for Iowa, 30 for ND, 661 for Colorado, 900 for wyoming, another 400 some for Kansas, its my hobby so I just pay it and enjoy it, just like all of us, damn North American hunting can get down right expensive too. If Africa had good hunting in Dec I would have been there by now, but spring and summer is hard to work with but some day it will happen. Hunting is very personal to all of us, wish more would remember that.
Money will never allow me to go on any type of exotic or even Canadian or Alaskan hunts or fishing adventures. But those that do have kept my dreams alive through many days of when all I had was dreams. As a young boy I spent endless days in bed or hospitals from medical issues and Outdoor life, Field and Stream and books about hunting and fishing story's from round the world gave me hope and desires to put one foot in front of the other day after day. HuntTalk is an extension of what I did in the past, fueling my dreams and hopes. I may be in my late 60's but almost every day I still think and dream of catching a giant walleye or killing a 400 class elk. Without others dreams how do I keep mine alive. Thank you to you who do and dream.
To see this as unexpected is to ignore reality; likely biased and unfair reality, but reality of the situation nonetheless. I hope this reply doesn't come off as crass, as I do think it is truly unfair how women are attacked when sharing hunting images.
Americans shooting African animals has a context that is hard to defend to those who don't hunt, even just the non-hunter. We may not like it and it might not be a fair assessment, but that is the reality. It is a hard message to push back on to the uninformed person and the anti-hunter knows it is a very effective tool to sway the non-hunter. They see it simply as some Yank with loads of cash coming to exploit a resource and a country, leaving the locals to clean up their mess. That is not the reality, but the situation is easily painted with that context by those opposed to hunting. We have how many controversies to prove that such is a reality?
As unfair as it is, women are held to a different standard than men when it comes to images portrayed in hunting. Not just in African hunting, but in domestic hunting here in the US. Two dudes posing with a pile of whitetail does hanging from the rafters are going to get comments like, "Good eats boys."
Have a woman posing in a picture with a single whitetail doe she took, tastefully composed, no blood, showing gratitude and respect, and watch all hell break loose. I don't understand it, but I've seen it enough times to know it is the reality. And further confounding is that the most vile comments will often come from other women. There is something in that response among anti or non-hunter women to other women who are hunters, that as a man, I cannot connect, but it surely seems to be there.
Add those two together, American female hunter with an African animal, and you better have your teflon persona ready to go. Not fair, surely biased, but the reality of the situation. I am not sure how to defend against it or combat it.
I do know that when you have the combination of a young American female hunter posing with a dead African animal, the cause of hunting is not furthered when said hunter gives an interview that ends up as poorly as this interview did. That is a reality. We can wish for a different reality, but for the time being, until something changes, expect more of these outcomes, not less.
There are some other realities that come with hunting and posting images or video for the public to see. I get almost no grief for posting pictures or video of an elk, deer, antelope that I have taken. I look at similar pictures women post and they get hammered and ridiculed.
When I post a picture or video of a bear, wolf, or bison the "fertilizer hits the ventilator," relative to my other images or video. Yet, even with those controversial US species, if you want to call them that, I don't get near the hate as a women gets for a whitetail doe.
An example was a FB video we posted of Dan, one of our crew, cooking stir fry black bear. This morning I banned over 100 Europeans from my FB channel, as they were hacking on Dan and his wife for eating bear meat. Only a few I banned were men. If it had been just Dan and not included his wife in the taste testing, I suspect it would not have had nearly the rage from within the female segment.
I deal with dozens of death wishes per month. I deal with hundreds of "hate messages" via email, FB, IG, and YouTube per week. I just delete them and move along. Occasionally, when bored, I might joust with a few of them, merely for the benefit of our hunting audience seeing that I am engaged on these platforms, not with any idea I might sway the minds of these folks wishing my demise.
This first caught me off guard when we did the wolf hunts that aired in 2013. Thousands of death wishes. Some of you longtimers remember me posting some of the more comical ones here. That event really shook my wife, which had me scrambling for ways to change that reality. I've yet to find a way to change it.
Since the wolf episodes, I've grown to accept hate mail and death wishes as a reality of being in this gig. My wife has less concern than she did back then, knowing it is not going to change.
Lesson of all that being, if Americans are going to hunt African animals and post them for the world to see, they had best be prepared for the chit storm that comes with it, especially women who do it. As unfair as it is, the storms she and other women will face are far worse than what I get for shooting wolves, bears, and bison.
I wish it was different, but life is full of realities and some of those realities we may not find fair.
Americans shooting African animals has a context that is hard to defend to those who don't hunt, even just the non-hunter. We may not like it and it might not be a fair assessment, but that is the reality. It is a hard message to push back on to the uninformed person and the anti-hunter knows it is a very effective tool to sway the non-hunter. They see it simply as some Yank with loads of cash coming to exploit a resource and a country, leaving the locals to clean up their mess. That is not the reality, but the situation is easily painted with that context by those opposed to hunting. We have how many controversies to prove that such is a reality?
As unfair as it is, women are held to a different standard than men when it comes to images portrayed in hunting. Not just in African hunting, but in domestic hunting here in the US. Two dudes posing with a pile of whitetail does hanging from the rafters are going to get comments like, "Good eats boys."
Have a woman posing in a picture with a single whitetail doe she took, tastefully composed, no blood, showing gratitude and respect, and watch all hell break loose. I don't understand it, but I've seen it enough times to know it is the reality. And further confounding is that the most vile comments will often come from other women. There is something in that response among anti or non-hunter women to other women who are hunters, that as a man, I cannot connect, but it surely seems to be there.
Add those two together, American female hunter with an African animal, and you better have your teflon persona ready to go. Not fair, surely biased, but the reality of the situation. I am not sure how to defend against it or combat it.
I do know that when you have the combination of a young American female hunter posing with a dead African animal, the cause of hunting is not furthered when said hunter gives an interview that ends up as poorly as this interview did. That is a reality. We can wish for a different reality, but for the time being, until something changes, expect more of these outcomes, not less.
There are some other realities that come with hunting and posting images or video for the public to see. I get almost no grief for posting pictures or video of an elk, deer, antelope that I have taken. I look at similar pictures women post and they get hammered and ridiculed.
When I post a picture or video of a bear, wolf, or bison the "fertilizer hits the ventilator," relative to my other images or video. Yet, even with those controversial US species, if you want to call them that, I don't get near the hate as a women gets for a whitetail doe.
An example was a FB video we posted of Dan, one of our crew, cooking stir fry black bear. This morning I banned over 100 Europeans from my FB channel, as they were hacking on Dan and his wife for eating bear meat. Only a few I banned were men. If it had been just Dan and not included his wife in the taste testing, I suspect it would not have had nearly the rage from within the female segment.
I deal with dozens of death wishes per month. I deal with hundreds of "hate messages" via email, FB, IG, and YouTube per week. I just delete them and move along. Occasionally, when bored, I might joust with a few of them, merely for the benefit of our hunting audience seeing that I am engaged on these platforms, not with any idea I might sway the minds of these folks wishing my demise.
This first caught me off guard when we did the wolf hunts that aired in 2013. Thousands of death wishes. Some of you longtimers remember me posting some of the more comical ones here. That event really shook my wife, which had me scrambling for ways to change that reality. I've yet to find a way to change it.
Since the wolf episodes, I've grown to accept hate mail and death wishes as a reality of being in this gig. My wife has less concern than she did back then, knowing it is not going to change.
Lesson of all that being, if Americans are going to hunt African animals and post them for the world to see, they had best be prepared for the chit storm that comes with it, especially women who do it. As unfair as it is, the storms she and other women will face are far worse than what I get for shooting wolves, bears, and bison.
I wish it was different, but life is full of realities and some of those realities we may not find fair.
Thank you Randy. Very well stated.
I certainly have heard some of the worst things one can imagine and have even on occasion been fearful for the safety of my life and the lifes of my family. --- How they hope someone kills and.or rapes myself, or other female members of my family.---- It can be pretty ugly.
Change what you can, accept what you can not, and have the wisdom to know the difference ----
Thank you again Randy
p.s.. at least three other females participate on this forum, that I know of. One of them hunts and traps and has been threatened many times, two times physically that I am aware of. One person somehow found out where she worked and tried to get her fired, with unsigned letters to her employer--
I certainly have heard some of the worst things one can imagine and have even on occasion been fearful for the safety of my life and the lifes of my family. --- How they hope someone kills and.or rapes myself, or other female members of my family.---- It can be pretty ugly.
Change what you can, accept what you can not, and have the wisdom to know the difference ----
Thank you again Randy
p.s.. at least three other females participate on this forum, that I know of. One of them hunts and traps and has been threatened many times, two times physically that I am aware of. One person somehow found out where she worked and tried to get her fired, with unsigned letters to her employer--
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devon deer
Well-known member
At least the woman had the courage to appear on the program and try to defend her actions, sadly she couldn't think on her feet, so it didn't come across too well.
I can only think the reason anti's, and even some fellow male hunters, detest these photo's is they think the place for women is in the home, act like a stepford wife, and leave the hunting/gathering to the men, I can't think of any other reason, times have changed, move on is what I say.
I would welcome any woman to hunt with me in the UK, just do as DaveN did, donate some $ to conservation groups in the US, I don't discriminate, in fact give me a woman to teach how to fly fish any day of the week compared to a bloke, they listen
Randy, sorry you had to ban so many people from my side of the pond, millions of people visit London to watch the trooping of the colour, just as they did last week, I wonder if they realise all the hats our Guards wear are made from Black Bear skins!
Cheers
Richard
I can only think the reason anti's, and even some fellow male hunters, detest these photo's is they think the place for women is in the home, act like a stepford wife, and leave the hunting/gathering to the men, I can't think of any other reason, times have changed, move on is what I say.
I would welcome any woman to hunt with me in the UK, just do as DaveN did, donate some $ to conservation groups in the US, I don't discriminate, in fact give me a woman to teach how to fly fish any day of the week compared to a bloke, they listen
Randy, sorry you had to ban so many people from my side of the pond, millions of people visit London to watch the trooping of the colour, just as they did last week, I wonder if they realise all the hats our Guards wear are made from Black Bear skins!
Cheers
Richard
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