Im bowing out

[MarvB]

Boy idk bout that. Never had it so I can't knock it but I'm skeptical

@HighDesertSage is spot on Nick, I’ve demolished my fare share of them…but most came with copious amounts of barely pops! Spent quite a few happy hours at the Garden, great place (though I went to a rival school lol).

 

[HighDesertSage]

Boy idk bout that. Never had it so I can't knock it but I'm skeptical

Holy shit, you would think that that combination of ingredients would not be that good, but as soon as you bite into it your life will change forever. Then you gotta wash it down with a pitcher of Crystal Wheat from Sierra Brewing...No wonder I was so fat in college. I need to go visit.

Sorry for getting us in the weeds....

 

[HighDesertSage]

@HighDesertSage is spot on Nick, I’ve demolished my fare share of them…but most came with copious amounts of barely pops! Spent quite a few happy hours at the Garden, great place (though I went to a rival school lol).

Hell yeah!

 

[MarvB]

Hell yeah!

HSU grad here… back when football was a thing and hippies weren’t!
Go Jacks!

 

[mtmuley]

If you have to start out in a $600,000.00 house, of course it is going to be tough.

That number is the reality of what people have to deal with these days. Even in good old Montana. mtmuley

 

[Treeshark]

$600k for a starter home?! That is crazy. Let’s be honest- that’s a choice.

There are a ton of places to get a cheaper home than that.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I really do understand what you are saying, my point is that I rented a trailer when we were first married. Then we bought a run down cottage out of town and bought the debt down on that for years, before selling it and building the house we live in now. It took years.

What people are buying today are nicer homes than what I have been living in for 42 years, not working their way up from a home that no one today would expect a migrant worker to live in.

Starting out with the house you want because it is nice vs starting out with a shack and working your way up is not in anyone’s playbook. If you have to start out in a $600,000.00 house, of course it is going to be tough. Our first house was tough at $21,000.00.

I hear you, dude speaking to the choir, I drive a 16 year old car and the apartment I bought for us in denver cost $130k, there were drug raids twice on neighbors, once Gus and I were playing fetch in common area and he disappeared around the corner, I went to see what he had gotten into and he was getting pets from a SWAT team …

Still reality is reality, my only goal was that next time you drive past the $18 sign you think “damn” inflation is nuts instead of “kids these days are lazy”.

 

[Dougfirtree]

$600k for a starter home?! That is crazy. Let’s be honest- that’s a choice.

There are a ton of places to get a cheaper home than that.

To the extent that location is a choice. It's not for everyone, but I hear you. A little house on 20 acres, down the road from me, just sold for about $175,000.

 

[Irrelevant]

These statements are not supported by the facts.

Minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation as defined by the CPI

1977 Min - $2.30
1977 Adjusted for inflation- $11.05
2022 Min - Federal $7.25, Montana $9.20

$25 today = $5.20 in 1977
------------------------------------------------------------

Being a millionaire ain't what it use to be...
1977 - $1,000,000
2022 - $4,805,948.72

1977- $208,075.46
2022- $1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------
Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

So in the last 45 years, inflation has far outstripped the minimum wage. In the last 45 years the cost of housing has outstripped inflation.

Point being in 1977 got you a lot more for your money, you had far more buying power as far as goods and services. Houses also cost far less in proportion to your wage.

Today if you're 16 and working your first job, even at Wendy's making $18/hr you are a lot further away from owning your own home than if you were at 16 in 1977 getting paid minimum wage.

$47,750/2.3 = 20760
$453,700/18= 25205

It would take you 1.21X times longer at more than double the federal min today than it would have taken you at min wage in 1977. For the federal min wage to have the same house buying power now as it did in 1977 it would need to be $22/hr, if you look at it through that lens then the $25/hr at Big O is only marginally over adjusted 1977 min wage.

---------------------------------------------------------

Further my point about requiring college, is the pretty ridiculous requirements in todays job market. No one in 1977 would say you needed 2 years of college to be a cashier at Walmart. The 'college' requirement in many jobs has gotten insane given the price change of college over the last 45 years.

View attachment 214432

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not pointing finger at anyone, I'm not trying to be political I'm just pointing out what the data shows.

There is absolutely an argument to be made that the price of gadgets? have dropped at the same time so the average house is better equipped now than it was in 1977. Which is to say there is a lot of nuance to even the arguments I'm presenting.

This is such a wonderful F-in' post, and so classically @wllm1313, that I may print it and frame it. And if @Hunting Wife has a topic for thoroughness in a smack down I nominate this one.

@shrapnel no one is saying that people can't achieve great things if they work hard, they can, and still do, like your sons. And to what I think your original point is, I too find it difficult to understand why there are so many "Now hiring" signs. But as has been clearly pointed out, the finances are not what they once were. I think it's a cop-out to simply proclaim people to be lazy for not taking a job. There are lots of reasons why people may not take a job, if for no other reason than there are currently SO MANY places hiring that you can pick and choose where to work.

 

[Treeshark]

Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

This is a great point. The “big three” of housing, healthcare and tuition have outpaced income by quite a bit.

 

[Trap]

These statements are not supported by the facts.

Minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation as defined by the CPI

1977 Min - $2.30
1977 Adjusted for inflation- $11.05
2022 Min - Federal $7.25, Montana $9.20

$25 today = $5.20 in 1977
------------------------------------------------------------

Being a millionaire ain't what it use to be...
1977 - $1,000,000
2022 - $4,805,948.72

1977- $208,075.46
2022- $1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------
Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

So in the last 45 years, inflation has far outstripped the minimum wage. In the last 45 years the cost of housing has outstripped inflation.

Point being in 1977 got you a lot more for your money, you had far more buying power as far as goods and services. Houses also cost far less in proportion to your wage.

Today if you're 16 and working your first job, even at Wendy's making $18/hr you are a lot further away from owning your own home than if you were at 16 in 1977 getting paid minimum wage.

$47,750/2.3 = 20760
$453,700/18= 25205

It would take you 1.21X times longer at more than double the federal min today than it would have taken you at min wage in 1977. For the federal min wage to have the same house buying power now as it did in 1977 it would need to be $22/hr, if you look at it through that lens then the $25/hr at Big O is only marginally over adjusted 1977 min wage.

---------------------------------------------------------

Further my point about requiring college, is the pretty ridiculous requirements in todays job market. No one in 1977 would say you needed 2 years of college to be a cashier at Walmart. The 'college' requirement in many jobs has gotten insane given the price change of college over the last 45 years.

View attachment 214432

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not pointing finger at anyone, I'm not trying to be political I'm just pointing out what the data shows.

There is absolutely an argument to be made that the price of gadgets? have dropped at the same time so the average house is better equipped now than it was in 1977. Which is to say there is a lot of nuance to even the arguments I'm presenting.

1967 to 2022 housing increased at roughly 4 percent and inflation averaged around 3.9 percent. We can cherry pick graphs and statistics to prove any argument. Look at 100 year history of real estate prices and the average will probably be 4 percent and slightly above inflation. There has always been boom bust cycles in real estate but prices will revert back to the norm. We are in a boom and things will correct. Last time we had multiple years of 30 percent returns on real estate was 07. The more telling chart you posted is higher education. College has been increasing at 2x the rate of inflation for decades. I put myself through college and graduate school 100 percent self funded. Not sure I could do that today. college is your cost problem for young people. Worse yet is the quality of their product has also gone down. More preaching ideology than actual teaching.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

LMAO, Big ol cheeseburger with bacon and peanut butter on it. My bad its actually called the "Jiffy Burger".

Madison Bear Garden In Chico California

The world famous Madison Bear Garden has been serving up great food and fun since 1977. Located downtown right next to Chico State.

www.madisonbeargarden.com

They are delicious.

I do miss the bear....and the tricycle races.

Good times indeed.

 

[Greggkp]

With a solid background in finance, I’ve spent most of my 50+ year working career in construction and buidling materials. As pointed out above, inflation makes new housing more expensive, but not as much as the additional costs of compliance with the ever increasing body of regulations and codes.

Just a few examples that directly impact housing are the International Building Code, the International Fire Code and the International Development Code. When I was working construction putting myself through college, we dealt with local codes that generally were practical and made sense for local conditions. With localities adopting International Codes, whose advisors are large international companies with vested interests, not only have codes become more burdensome, the barriers to innovation and market entry have become much greater.

In summary, it is much harder and costly for young people today…alternatively it is much easier for large companies to make money. I don’t like to ascribe intent, but it sure sounds exactly like what the Davos elites want?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

We can cherry pick graphs and statistics to prove any argument. …

probably be 4 percent and slightly above inflation.

Anyone can look up the. CPI I didn’t cite it as it’s readily available, I cited my sources for housing.

Cite your sources, don’t respond to facts with “well it’s probably”.

If I’m wrong prove it.

Housing out pacing inflation.

 

[mdhunter]

I was told you know you are getting old when you start saying “I don’t know how these kids will make it”.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

With a solid background in finance, I’ve spent most of my 50+ year working career in construction and buidling materials. As pointed out above, inflation makes new housing more expensive, but not as much as the additional costs of compliance with the ever increasing body of regulations and codes.

Just a few examples that directly impact housing are the International Building Code, the International Fire Code and the International Development Code. When I was working construction putting myself through college, we dealt with local codes that generally were practical and made sense for local conditions. With localities adopting International Codes, whose advisors are large international companies with vested interests, not only have codes become more burdensome, the barriers to innovation and market entry have become much greater.

In summary, it is much harder and costly for young people today…alternatively it is much easier for large companies to make money. I don’t like to ascribe intent, but it sure sounds exactly like what the Davos elites want?

I know nothing about codes and you have piqued my interest, can you share some examples of what an international code might say v. Local and how that impacts things?

 

[Mallardsx2]

I was told you know you are getting old when you start saying “I don’t know how these kids will make it”.

I hear ya. I feel like its going to be a super struggle for our children.

All we can do is teach our kids right from wrong and how to earn a buck and if we have the means to also start IRA accounts (roth or otherwise) for kids asap so they wont be poor when they are older. That is the best advice I can give anyone right now if they want to help out their kids futures.

I wish my parents had done what I am doing for mine. They just didn't understand the concept of compounding interest.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I hear ya. I feel like its going to be a super struggle for our children.

All we can do is teach our kids right from wrong and how to earn a buck and if we have the means to also start IRA accounts (roth or otherwise) for kids asap so they wont be poor when they are older. That is the best advice I can give anyone right now if they want to help out their kids futures.

I wish my parents had done what I am doing for mine. They just didn't understand the concept of compounding interest.

Teaching your kids finance is huge IMHO, though I can’t really fault previous generations there, a lot of the most commonly used vehicles used today 401ks, Roths, etc weren’t invented till my parents were older than I am, eg my dad was 40 when the Roth IRA was invented.

 

[DouglasR]

i phones.
Air conditioning.
How will they ever make it.

I wish my parents had done what I am doing for mine. They just didn't understand the concept of compounding interest. Were busy LIVING their own lives, weren’t accountants and didn’t pencil f*** every single aspect of life and kinda left it up to me to find my own way. I mean, it’s total bs that they didn’t give me 70k free dollars to pay for school, that would’ve really given me the competitive edge to have a bigger house and boat at 30, but buying power man.

 

[DouglasR]

Teaching your kids finance is huge IMHO, though I can’t really fault previous generations there, a lot of the most commonly used vehicles used today 401ks, Roths, etc weren’t invented till my parents were older than I am, eg my dad was 40 when the Roth IRA was invented.

I think teaching how to manage money is important, but I don’t think we’re all supposed to be trust fund kids.