Hunting Access to Public land blocked!!!

[BuzzH]

Wrong ten bears, my public land is mine to use, thanks to many supreme court cases and resource policy laws.

Want to dispute that too?

You bet I'm right on the poaching issue, crossing private property to reach public lands is not poaching, trespassing yes.

Read this slowly now, I'm not in favor of DENYING access, just in favor of LIMITING access. Get it?

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, please refer to the:

"American Heritage Dictionary - paperback, 1983. page 529"
poach2: 1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game. 2. To take (fish or game) illegally.

"Merriam-Webster Dictionary - paperback, 1974. page 535"
poach: to hunt or fish unlawfully.

If you aren't supposed to be there because access is denied/restricted, you're trespassing. Taking game while trespassing is unlawfull, and therefore, poaching.

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ. Read this very SLOWLY, this issue does not deny you access to the public land beyond, it is only an extreme limitation.

So you are saying that if I shot a deer on posted private land, I'm not poaching because, in Idaho, wildlife are owned by the state, and if season is open I can shoot it and not be poaching?

Wildlife in Idaho are "public property", and I would only be going on private land, albeit trespassing, to access the "public property".

 

[BuzzH]

Ten, you're wrong. I wouldnt kill or attempt to hunt an animal on private land, only on public.

I'd even make double sure my firearm was unloaded, the bolt out, and so on, while trespassing to get to my public land. All I'd be doing is trespassing.

So, no I would not get a ticket for poaching, I'd legally harvest my big-game on public land. Last I checked that isnt poaching or illegal.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-12-2003 17:16: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "American Heritage Dictionary - paperback, 1983. page 529"
poach2: 1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game. 2. To take (fish or game) illegally. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUZZ, read definition #1 slowly and repeatedly. It doesn't say anything about excluding crossing another's land. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[BuzzH]

Ten read this slowly, you're wrong.

When an agency and a welfare rancher close public access via legal right-of-way, that most certainly is denying access. It is not limiting it, it is DENYING it.

Closing an area to motorized travel is not DENYING all access, its limiting access to foot travel, horses, etc. Get it?

 

[BuzzH]

Ten, all it says in most Fish and Game regulations is you must have permission to HUNT on private lands...it doesnt say anything about hiking across private property to reach public lands to hunt.

Read the regulations.

Heres Wyomings regulation:

No person shall enter upon the private property of any person to (heres the part you arent getting) HUNT, without the permission of the owner.

Like I said, I wouldnt have any intention of taking an animal on private property, only on public lands. Like I said, I'd be guilty of trespassing, but would not be illegally taking wildlife on private property. Get it?

 

[Ten Bears]

Read this.
TITLE 36
FISH AND GAME
CHAPTER 16
RECREATIONAL TRESPASS -- LANDHOLDER LIABILITY LIMITED
36-1603. TRESPASSING ON CULTIVATED LANDS OR IN VIOLATION OF WARNING SIGNS
-- POSTING OF PUBLIC LANDS. (a) No person shall enter the real property of
another and shoot any weapon or enter such property for the purposes of
hunting, fishing or trapping, without the permission of the owner or person in
charge of the property,[B/}....

http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=360160003.K

 

[Ten Bears]

I think section (b) says they can post, and therefore restrict, public land. What do you think?
(b) No person shall post, sign, or indicate that any public lands within
this state, not held under an exclusive control lease, are privately owned
lands.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-12-2003 17:42: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[Muledeer4me]

"How can hunting on public land be considered poaching? Poaching is hunting without a license, in a closed season, shooting too many animals, shooting out of a spotlight, etc. "

How can that be considered poaching? Great question ,Buzz.
I guess the answer would have to be --it can't. The same way all ATV rider's can't be called poacher's,or fat lazy slob's just because they own or ride an ATV.LOL
You will be lumped in with something you would never do,never have done and dont condone,BUT that doesn't matter because the same type of narrow minded person that try's to lable (ALL of any group) will now lable you as a tresspassing poacher,for no other reason except they dont LIKE what you are doing.

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME, I never said people were poachers who ride ATV's, never. But I did call them lazy slobs, which I believe they are.

Ten, you obviously dont understand the law.

If I cross private property to reach public lands without permission, I am not poaching.

I am trespassing.

I have no intentions of hunting on private property, none. I would only HUNT on public lands, which is totally and completely legal.

I would not poach my animal, but rather legally harvest it on public lands.

Ten, it sounds to me like they CANT post public lands.

Tens quote, "(b) No person shall post, sign, or indicate that any public lands within
this state, not held under an exclusive control lease, are privately owned
lands."

I read that as unless an exclusive control lease exists (which I would bet are very few in ID), that its against the law for anyone to post public lands as private.

I agree with that, its BS for anyone to post public as private.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-12-2003 18:11: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

Wow...Ten Bears and LA, you guys ARE anti-hunters! It's obvious. Only an anti-hunter would be in favor of closing BLM land to the public. You keep bringing up ATV's. How many times do you have to be told that that has nothing to do with this issue? If an area is closed to motorized vehicles, hunters who ride ATV's can still use that ATV to get to the point where the motorized vehicle restriction starts. Then they can park that ATV and walk on their own two feet and HUNT! This issue is not about that. It is about a rancher closing off what may be the only legal access into public land. I just am amazed that you two can't figure this out. I have a feeling that the two of you really would not be in favor of this, and all you are doing here is trying to start a fight with Ithaca and Buzz. Don't you have better things to do?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-12-2003 20:04: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

No, they don't. But when they waste all our time with these ridiculous arguments they bring up I think most people understand what they're doing. It's a good opportunity to make sure everyone else understands some of these issues, though. They end up losing because we get others involved and some will end up becoming activists. And anyone who studies the issues will eventually realize the welfare ranchers are the enemies of sportsmen and wildlife.

 

[tmsander]

Buzz - while what you say is technically correct, I wouldn't want to try and explain that I'm not poaching if cought on private property with a weapon during hunting season, even if my intention was only to tresspass.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten, if all the law is going to do is force me to walk, thats fine with me. I'd gladly hike ten or twelve miles for good hunting, especially when ATV's arent allowed.

But if some welfare rancher and a dippy government agent try to DENY all forms of access to public lands to help the welfare ranchers cows, then yeah, I got a big problem with that. Totally denying access to public lands is wrong.

How many exclusive leases do you have in Idaho?

I can see a need for a few of them for safety reasons...you know like a small section near a dwelling where a stray bullet may whiz through the house, things along those lines.

 

[Muledeer4me]

["Exactly my point. If they don't have an exclusive control lease, they can't keep you out. This whole thing started because one of the ground pounders started crying about a gate that would close a good road into public land. We only bolstered his whining with some jabs."]

That quote sum's it up real good.

Something else I would like to point out,
Buzz (not trying to pick on you here buzz)said he would cross private land to hunt public land Im guessing that means he would also be carring a rifle,not intending to do anything illegal only getting to his hunting spotp, but if cought ,he could be treated like and labled as illegal with the intent to poach .
Im pretty sure Buzz would'nt be into poaching ,but there he is cought with a rifle in a posted area.
So if we are to go by the rule's some of you go by,he has to be labled as nothing more then a lazy fat ass tresspasser intent on poaching that was to lazy or stupid to do some pre-season scouting or find another way place to hunt?

Tell me what make's Buzz then different then with someone riding an ATV in an open area (carring a rifle that isnt in a case) with the intent of riding to a spot so they can start hiking & hunting?

They are ALL labled as lazy fat assed people intent on-------raping the land,cutting fence's,running down game,shooting from there ATV,being road hunter's.

While im sure Buzz would have no intent on shoot anything (even the biggest Bull)while crossing that posted land.
If this were in the ATV debate you guy's know it would go something like this


(You all know no lazy fat assed ATV rider could resist taking pot shots at any fork horn buck that they chased down with there ATV while crossing the private land.)

I think the point to this was that there are many reason's to stick together as hunter's.
To be carefull in labling people you dont know,(unless you have fact's on them).
Try not to exclude other's just because you dont happen to be like them or hunt like them.

I have already voiced my distain with anyone closing off access to public lands,and that goes for ranchers.
But this post bring's home so many of the thing's we have been trying to get across.
Just as Buzz isnt a poacher,many of us that own ATV aren't illegal (fat assed maybe)

but not lazy ,illegal,fence cutting, road hunting poacher's.
Buy why would the ranchers or ATV rider's want to go to bat for those same people that love nothing more then to separte themself from anyone that isnt just like thereselfs?
That's what I dont get.

 

[Ithaca 37]

One of the things I like about this forum is that we've established that all ATV riders have fat asses and all ranchers are welfare ranchers or else hard working, depending on who the poster is.

Fat assed ATV riders.
Welfare ranchers.
Hard working ranchers.

Seem to be the commonly accepted labels here. Kinda like up in the Deer section where every forkhorn buck shot is a "nice fat forkhorn--gonna be good eatin'".

 

[BigHornyRam]

I'm having one hell of a good time watching this debate from the cheap seats! Lost and Ten, keep it up! Keep twisting that knife!

Paul

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, How do you think "an agency and a welfare rancher close public access via legal right-of-way," without an "exclusive control" (clause) in the lease? Otherwise it'sjust a locked gate. Which means put on your hiking boots it's gonna be a long walk, nothing more. However, if they have the clause, post the land, entry (even to pass through) to hunt is illegal.

MD4M, you ask
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "How can hunting on public land be considered poaching? Poaching is hunting without a license, in a closed season, shooting too many animals, shooting out of a spotlight, etc. "
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the cow farmer gets an exclusive control (clause) in the lease, and posts the land, then according to our state law it's trespassing to hunt, and by definition.
"American Heritage Dictionary - paperback, 1983. page 529"
poach2: 1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game. 2. To take (fish or game) illegally.

"Merriam-Webster Dictionary - paperback, 1974. page 535"
poach: to hunt or fish unlawfully.
If you do something unlawful in the process of hunting or fishing it's poaching.

BUZZ, you say <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I have no intentions of hunting on private property, none. I would only HUNT on public lands, which is totally and completely legal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unless you have permission, and they have the clause, and post the land, then even if it's public land, you can't hunt there.

WH, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Wow...Ten Bears and LA, you guys ARE anti-hunters! It's obvious. Only an anti-hunter would be in favor of closing BLM land to the public. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's a locked gate on a lease. Start walking.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If an area is closed to motorized vehicles, hunters who ride ATV's can still use that ATV to get to the point where the motorized vehicle restriction starts. Then they can park that ATV and walk on their own two feet and HUNT! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly my point. If they don't have an exclusive control lease, they can't keep you out. This whole thing started because one of the ground pounders started crying about a gate that would close a good road into public land. We only bolstered his whining with some jabs.

Has anybody gotten a confirmed read of this, other then what the paper says? I have been waiting for a reply from the BLM, but the haven't responded yet.

ITHACA, I wouldn't say you've won a debate for quite some time now.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-13-2003 00:22: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[Lostagain]

WH== let's make a bigassed list of all the truly revolting things about hunting.
Semiauto weapons
Game Farms
ATVs
Arrows sticking outa wounded animals
Wounded animals from ill placed shots
litter
drunk hunters
poachers
trails and roads rutted to smitherees


Continue the list, I need some help on this, I don't know what all YOU think is revolting