Hunting Access to Public land blocked!!!
- Thread starter Ithaca 37
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Ithaca 37
New member
Lost, You should know by now I take part in every process I have time for, especially the ones that affect me. I can't get into every comment process so I leave some for other people I trust---like FERC dam licensing. Instead of asking me and Buzz what we get involved in why not ask a few other real vocal posters here.
Where were you and a few other wolf critics on the wolf re-introduction planning process?
Where were you and a few other wolf critics on the wolf re-introduction planning process?
Ithaca 37
New member
As for welfare ranchers locking gates and denying access; if they think they have problems with fences getting cut now wait 'til they try this new idea! The ATV crowd will have their barb wire fences in a million pieces!
I have personally followed ATV tracks many times and found where the cut a fence so they could drive thru. Well, by many I mean about 6 or 8 times where there was just one single ATV track blazing a new trail.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
It has been an unfortunate situation in most of the west that thousands of acres of BLM land has been available to ranchers for their private use because they have it landlocked. I like the Arizona solution, wherein the landowner has to provide access, even if by foot, to government land otherwise landlocked.
Just to change the subject uh IT?
As for the wolves, I didn't think they needed import more. There's too many eco problems involved, grizzlies etc. I didn't believe they would ever delist the wolves, just be a continuation of various lawsuits preventing the delisting and jumble up what is most likely a nice addition to the wildlife population. Same as with all this enviro, the paid experts we hired at the BLM/USFS can't do their job b/c of lawsuits and threats of lawsuits.
I hope this "denied access" doesn't get implemented but since it came up, I'm glad to see you anti's squirm and squeal, but still you don't want to see the big picture of YOU are NEXT.
As for you cutting a federal fence, that might be a federal crime and Buzz gaining access anyway, Just hope folks like "don't bother IT", and others are the only ones who see ya, they won't turn ya in. After all the crap you posted about the little sentences to poachers, looks like you are joining them.
As for the wolves, I didn't think they needed import more. There's too many eco problems involved, grizzlies etc. I didn't believe they would ever delist the wolves, just be a continuation of various lawsuits preventing the delisting and jumble up what is most likely a nice addition to the wildlife population. Same as with all this enviro, the paid experts we hired at the BLM/USFS can't do their job b/c of lawsuits and threats of lawsuits.
I hope this "denied access" doesn't get implemented but since it came up, I'm glad to see you anti's squirm and squeal, but still you don't want to see the big picture of YOU are NEXT.
As for you cutting a federal fence, that might be a federal crime and Buzz gaining access anyway, Just hope folks like "don't bother IT", and others are the only ones who see ya, they won't turn ya in. After all the crap you posted about the little sentences to poachers, looks like you are joining them.
BuzzH
Well-known member
LA, accessing public lands is not poaching.
I wonder how many judges would throw out a case involving legally accessing public lands in defiance of some welfare ranchers need to DENY access to federal lands.
I wonder how many wardens or LEO's would even give you a ticket to start with for hunting on public land? I dont think the State Wardens would have any jurisdiction to scratch a ticket for it.
It isnt poaching, not even close. Trespassing maybe, but not poaching.
Sometimes a little civil disobediance is called for.
I wonder how many judges would throw out a case involving legally accessing public lands in defiance of some welfare ranchers need to DENY access to federal lands.
I wonder how many wardens or LEO's would even give you a ticket to start with for hunting on public land? I dont think the State Wardens would have any jurisdiction to scratch a ticket for it.
It isnt poaching, not even close. Trespassing maybe, but not poaching.
Sometimes a little civil disobediance is called for.
Ten Bears
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I have personally followed ATV tracks many times and found where the cut a fence so they could drive thru. Well, by many I mean about 6 or 8 times where there was just one single ATV track blazing a new trail.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's called civil disobediance, it's OK, ask BUZZ, he can fill you in.
State wardens don't have jurisdiction on federal land? What do I have to worry about in the woods then?
Thanks BUZZ. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Trespassing maybe, but not poaching. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Define poaching.
It's called civil disobediance, it's OK, ask BUZZ, he can fill you in.
State wardens don't have jurisdiction on federal land? What do I have to worry about in the woods then?
Define poaching.
Ithaca 37
New member
Nice opinion about wolves, Lost. Did you take part in the official comment opportunity before re-introduction or did you just wait until the decision was made before you got concerned? Buzz and I were part of the official process--we submitted our comments at the proper time---as we usually do. I find that people who are part of the process don't get as upset about the outcome, even if it doesn't go their way. It always seems to be the latecomers who do most of the whining.
You and Ten seem more concerned with hoping some of us will be aggravated by the BLM decision than doing what's right.
After thinking it all over I've decided I'd like to set aside a whole bunch of welfare ranch BLM leases to try this idea of letting them lock gates and watch the fun. The ATV crowd doesn't pay the slightest attention to locked gates on FS roads and will go to an amazing amount of difficulty to get around them. Can you imagine what they'll do on BLM where all they have to do is drive about twenty feet and get out the wire cutters? There will be cattle running all over the place, it will be the welfare ranchers responsibility to keep them on the lease and they'll spend all their time chasing cows around and fixing fences! So much time they'll never have time to go sit in the local cafe and bitch about cattle prices!
I can't wait to see it! This will probably bring about the end of welfare ranching.
Locking BLM gates might keep out people like me and Buzz with our trucks, but it's not going to slow down the ATV crowd any longer than it takes to reach over and snip the wire!
"After all the crap you posted about the little sentences to poachers, looks like you are joining them." Wrong again!
I'm just gonna sit back and watch the fat assed ATV crowd cut fences and then I'm gonna call the Cattlemen's Association and report them!
Let the welfare ranchers deal with it!
I'm gonna love this!
You and Ten seem more concerned with hoping some of us will be aggravated by the BLM decision than doing what's right.
After thinking it all over I've decided I'd like to set aside a whole bunch of welfare ranch BLM leases to try this idea of letting them lock gates and watch the fun. The ATV crowd doesn't pay the slightest attention to locked gates on FS roads and will go to an amazing amount of difficulty to get around them. Can you imagine what they'll do on BLM where all they have to do is drive about twenty feet and get out the wire cutters? There will be cattle running all over the place, it will be the welfare ranchers responsibility to keep them on the lease and they'll spend all their time chasing cows around and fixing fences! So much time they'll never have time to go sit in the local cafe and bitch about cattle prices!
"After all the crap you posted about the little sentences to poachers, looks like you are joining them." Wrong again!
IT, you're wrong again, as usual when you try to guess what people do. I believe my comments on most everything about public land and public use are in the first wave of responses the agencies get. Even their little infomeetings are attended. I agree with ya about the welfare ranching....it should come to an end, the agencies should be PAYING for the result they want, then the agency would have more control over OUR land. Sell out who ya want, just remeber you're on the list too. What about those poor doves? They don't matter to you, so you're not going to speak up are ya IT?
Ithaca 37
New member
Lost, "IT, you're wrong again, as usual when you try to guess what people do." Please quote where I guessed what you did.
I think we're back to the same ol' reading comprehension problem.
I think we're back to the same ol' reading comprehension problem.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ten bears, if I have a license and I'm on PUBLIC land, hunting during a legal season, what is a state warden going to do about it? Nothing, he'll have the same map I do, which will show I'm on public land. Will he have the jurisdiction to scratch me a ticket for hunting on BLM or FS land? I doubt it, thats why prosecuting illegal ATVers is about impossible, the state wardens cant do a thing about it. The FS or BLM LEO's are the ones that have to enforce the law for illegal ATV use.
How can hunting on public land be considered poaching? Poaching is hunting without a license, in a closed season, shooting too many animals, shooting out of a spotlight, etc. Which wardens WILL scratch you a ticket for.
If the BLM and the welfare ranchers try to shut down public access to public lands, I wont honor the closures, no way.
How can hunting on public land be considered poaching? Poaching is hunting without a license, in a closed season, shooting too many animals, shooting out of a spotlight, etc. Which wardens WILL scratch you a ticket for.
If the BLM and the welfare ranchers try to shut down public access to public lands, I wont honor the closures, no way.
Nut
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calif. Hunter:
It has been an unfortunate situation in most of the west that thousands of acres of BLM land has been available to ranchers for their private use because they have it landlocked. I like the Arizona solution, wherein the landowner has to provide access, even if by foot, to government land otherwise landlocked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is how I feel also. The public lands here (That I know of) have a access road or path going to the tracts of public land. However try to find a place to park.
I also do not agree that a rancher should make the decision regarding the lands. They are not theirs . He or she could ask the Land Managers to make a decision in the best informative way and have it open for public discussions.
It has been an unfortunate situation in most of the west that thousands of acres of BLM land has been available to ranchers for their private use because they have it landlocked. I like the Arizona solution, wherein the landowner has to provide access, even if by foot, to government land otherwise landlocked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is how I feel also. The public lands here (That I know of) have a access road or path going to the tracts of public land. However try to find a place to park.
I also do not agree that a rancher should make the decision regarding the lands. They are not theirs . He or she could ask the Land Managers to make a decision in the best informative way and have it open for public discussions.
Ten Bears
New member
Wolves, what wolves
. I didn't know about the issue until it passed, but please feel free to quote me were I bitched. I'm still waiting for a hunting season.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'm just gonna sit back and watch the fat assed ATV crowd cut fences and then I'm gonna call the Cattlemen's Association and report them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> It's called civil disobediance, it's OK, ask BUZZ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the state warden has no jurisdiction on federal land, what jurisdiction does the Cattleman's Association have?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> You and Ten seem more concerned with hoping some of us will be aggravated by the BLM decision than doing what's right.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wrong again. I am concerned that you would be so upset that these restrictions would be considered. You see, I see no restriction to flying over the gated area to the public lands beyond. You and BUZZ call this total exclusion, and I see a locked gate. Nowhere have I read that hunting will not be allowed, just that the gate will be locked. Sounds to me like your getting exactly what you've been asking for, a locked gate at the highway, and a long walk to were you want to hunt. And now you complain that you're being locked out?, Oh the hypocrisy of the arguement.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'm just gonna sit back and watch the fat assed ATV crowd cut fences and then I'm gonna call the Cattlemen's Association and report them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> It's called civil disobediance, it's OK, ask BUZZ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wrong again. I am concerned that you would be so upset that these restrictions would be considered. You see, I see no restriction to flying over the gated area to the public lands beyond. You and BUZZ call this total exclusion, and I see a locked gate. Nowhere have I read that hunting will not be allowed, just that the gate will be locked. Sounds to me like your getting exactly what you've been asking for, a locked gate at the highway, and a long walk to were you want to hunt. And now you complain that you're being locked out?, Oh the hypocrisy of the arguement.
Ithaca 37
New member
Well, they can send a range detective to investigate. They can call the BLM and try to get something done, as I have tried in the past without any luck. Seems there aren't any BLM enforcement people to investigate anything. I don't care what they do, I'm just going to turn the problem over to them to deal with any way they want. I figure if they want to close gates they can deal with the problems.
The more problems they have to deal with, the less time they'll have to lobby in the Legislature for weaker F&G enforcement.
The more problems they have to deal with, the less time they'll have to lobby in the Legislature for weaker F&G enforcement.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ten, you're right, if it does pass, I can guarantee that I'll still be hunting the same public lands I always have, and I wont have to put up with ATVers either.
You see, I'm not afraid of hiking or backpacking animals out of the woods, nor am I afraid to access my public lands.
You see, I'm not afraid of hiking or backpacking animals out of the woods, nor am I afraid to access my public lands.
Ten Bears
New member
BUZZ, I hate to burst your bubble, but state wardens do write tickets on federal land for area closure, at least around here. A county deoputy just went to court for driving behind a gate to get a deer (same issue if you ask me).
Where does this issue say anything about no hunting? You guys started that,not me. I'm just playing on your fears.
BTW BUZZ, I'm pretty sure if you took that public land open season philosophy to court, you'd lose. My understanding around here is if you trespass to hunt it's poaching, and crossing against restrictions would be trespassing even on public land (same as using an ATV in a closed area). I know of state land here that is posted "State Property / No Trespassing". How does that apply?
Where does this issue say anything about no hunting? You guys started that,not me. I'm just playing on your fears.
BTW BUZZ, I'm pretty sure if you took that public land open season philosophy to court, you'd lose. My understanding around here is if you trespass to hunt it's poaching, and crossing against restrictions would be trespassing even on public land (same as using an ATV in a closed area). I know of state land here that is posted "State Property / No Trespassing". How does that apply?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ten, if you kill an animal on federal or state land during a legal hunting season, do you currently get written a ticket for that?
Like I say, I wouldnt honor any closure of a public right-of-way to public land and I dont believe I'd be prosecuted IF I got caught.
Whats being proposed is closing access off, not hunting, just like you said.
All you could get nailed for is misdemeanor trespass, which is about a $50 fine. BFD, I'd pay that to access some quality hunting. You're confusing trespass and poaching, totally different.
Like I say, I wouldnt honor any closure of a public right-of-way to public land and I dont believe I'd be prosecuted IF I got caught.
Whats being proposed is closing access off, not hunting, just like you said.
All you could get nailed for is misdemeanor trespass, which is about a $50 fine. BFD, I'd pay that to access some quality hunting. You're confusing trespass and poaching, totally different.
Ten Bears
New member
Bottom line BUZZ, you'd call your version of trespass "civil disobediense" and somebody else, "fat arsed slobs" ( ie. ATV riders legally on a road or trail). You would break the law, and call it a moral right. Yet, on the other hand, you strive to restrict the legal activities of others, and call it a moral right. What makes you think that you are always right?
You want to walk/hike and hunt, go do it, but leave others to their own devises. Learn some humility, and be acceptant of differences in others.
You want more restrictions placed on others, but none on yourself. Sometimes "your" public land isn't "yours" to play with, contemplate that for a while.
You want to walk/hike and hunt, go do it, but leave others to their own devises. Learn some humility, and be acceptant of differences in others.
You want more restrictions placed on others, but none on yourself. Sometimes "your" public land isn't "yours" to play with, contemplate that for a while.
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