Howling coyotes

[Slydog]

Rich H,
I used the term " to disagree is one thing but to disrespect and slam each other is like two fleas," in a general manor not pointing fingers, I'm sorry if I was unclear in my post. Some people have a way with words, I don't have way, I guess.

I have to admit that I also respectfully disagree with what Rich C was saying but I wanted to see where it was going, I thought maybe there was a lesson or a point to what he was saying. I don't think we will ever know now.

Rich C,
As far as coyote vocalization goes I haven't hunted with or talked with or seen video of anyone who I think knows more about the subject than Rich H. and the more I listen and the more I impliment the vocal sounds that I have learned from Rich H. the better hunter I become. I also think that you have many good qualitys, strong points and tricks that will bennifit the board members as well as myself, I think its a damned shame to loose any of the vets from this board because of a differance of opinion. Rich C, if everyone agreed all the time we would have no conversation, just one long post and many readers. I think I like the interaction and exploring others Ideas and tactics. FYI I don't always agree with Rich H. either but thats ok He don't always agree with me and we are Ok with that.

You are both valued contributers here at moosies and are both wanted here. I think there is room for both of you.

Now can we all Please get back to buisness.

sly

 

[Maineiac the original]

When howling on the stand what is the howl and cadence? ie...yip-howwwwwl-yip....yip-yip-howwwwwwwwwwwwwl-yip-yip------yip?

The other day on stand I made a yip-howwwl-yip waited about 2-3 or so did a yip-howwwl-yip-yip. Just after the second sequence I heard some twigs breaking in the woods just behind me.

 

[varmit hunter]

I have this mental picture of a pack of Coyotes sitting in front of a PC. Slowly scrolling through this post.

Would any one care to venture what would be going through there minds?.

I don't think any major harm to there species would be a very high priority for them. More like who is going to bring the Sheep when this crowd falls off the planet.

 

[Crow Woman]

ROFLMAO

Your Da Man VH

 

[BadKarma]

So people what do ya say we get back on track with the howling concept of this thread?I (as well as other,I'm sure)was gaining some good insite on howling.

As a matter of fact I did incorperate some howling into my stands last year ,with limited success.I'm just not as well versed in calling these coyotes(going on 3 years)as most.I would like to know more about the vocalizations and what they mean to effectivaly use them in my arsenal against one of the most difficult to figure out quarry (when I think I have em figgured out I get edumacated quick and have to rethink and change my tatics)walking God's green earth.But I guess that is what keeps me addicted to calling them.
Oh yeah every once in a while I do find one that doesn't have a PHD or even a highschool diploma.and I feel fortunate to use what I have learned in my tenure as a predator hunter. Experience does pay off but I need a whole lot more experience than what I have.

So Please Gentleman( I use the term loosly) let's carry on with the very informative and educational thread of "Howling Coyotes"

 

[danr55]

Well Rich, I found it applicable because, as with any species, the numerical volume of critters in any given land area, will define to some exent what the competition for food is like and how likely dogs are to reply when called.

Given the expansive nature of the coyote, as described in the article I discussed before it disappeared, noted that the coyote population is expanding exponentially in North America and may soon reach a point where there are more dogs than area to support them. That should make howling in coyotes easy for a while...

As with most things with Mom Nature, when the numbers exceed the carrying capacity of the range, for any length of time, some natural controls will take over and reduce the population by attritition.

I was looking for some comment on the idea. That's all... Guess I picked the wrong forum..

 

[Rich Higgins]

Very revealing post Danr55. And you believe this information is relevant because? And it can be applied by callers in what way?

 

[Slydog]

People please, if you have nothing construcive to say, just read. Heck we may all learn a thing or two! After all I thought thats what we come here for.

Now can we get back to the topic? Please

sly

 

[Rich Higgins]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well Rich, I found it applicable because, as with any species, the numerical volume of critters in any given land area, will define to some exent what the competition for food is like and how likely dogs are to reply when called.
---------------------------------------------
RH-- Agreed, population densities absolutely influence competition for available food which triggers territorial behavior, but I don't think it determines "how likely dogs are to reply when called". Hunger is only one of several reasons they are likely to respond. All the taken coyotes with full stomachs verify that. Greed, territorial concerns,and curiosity motivate them as well.
-------------------------------------------- D55
Given the expansive nature of the coyote, as described in the article I discussed before it disappeared, noted that the coyote population is expanding exponentially in North America and may soon reach a point where there are more dogs than area to support them. That should make howling in coyotes easy for a while...
---------------------------------------------RH--Exponential growth would naturally occur in any area with good prey base and habitat and low densities, whether the result of population suppression, range expansion, parasite infestation or viral epidemic. Coyotes have the ability to control their populations to a degree. If elicited howling response, scent marking and frequent territory defense indicate high densities the females breed at an older age, have smaller litters, and betas do not breed at all. Placental scar examination as shown that pregnant females will reabsorb the fetuses and produce smaller litters and sometimes none at all. If carrying capacity is exceeded for any length of time due to any of a number of causes including drought, low prey cycles, loss of habitat or population increase the coyotes either disperse or Nature settles the problem for them. Please explain to me how you think any of this will make howling them in easier?
---------------------------------------------
D55

As with most things with Mom Nature, when the numbers exceed the carrying capacity of the range, for any length of time, some natural controls will take over and reduce the population by attritition.
---------------------------------------------RH-- I agree with you and covered this above when I was on a roll and overshot the subject.
---------------------------------------------
D55--I was looking for some comment on the idea. That's all... Guess I picked the wrong forum.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
---------------------------------------------RH--Right forum and I would like to continue talking with you. What was the doctor's name and who is he or she affiliated with?

 

[Dick Reece]

Well,I can tell you that the coyote population here would be a good place for a study of all these variables that effect calling,especially population density. Our coyote poulation is increasing quite markedly every year,and shows no signs of slowing down or peeking.

For one thing,there just aren't that many predator hunters in this state,although there is an abundance of trappers,there are few callers in the mix.

IMHO,the coyotes are finding easy food sources here,in the cutovers,burns,abandoned corn fields,clear cuts,and strip jobs that abound in these hills [apparently all mountains reside out West

].

Since people know I'm interested in predator hunting,I get to hear all the local predator complaints.Seems everyday someone is complaing about the coyotes anymore.

 

[danr55]

Rich, I don't recall the Doctor's name, but he was associated with University of Arizona.

How will it make howling them easier?? I'm not sure. That was the purpose behind the original post. Although unstated, the implied question was, considering the increasing densities and the hightened competition for food, would coyotes react by coming to a dinner bell (a call) quicker? It would seem that they would also become more protective on thier territory and quicker to react to a challenge. Faster to plug the breech, if you will.

Putting the two together, if my premise is correct, it seems that with the increasing population density, this would be a great time to be calling and learning to call/howl. If my premise is not correct, I would like to find the error..

It seems that getting drawn to hunt big game in Arizona is becoming tougher and tougher, so coyote hunting would offer a suitable substitute. I enjoy calling Elk and deer but have never really tried calling coyotes specifically. Although I've had some come to a fawn bleat, (I've had bears come to a bleat also..) I've never set out to specifically call coyotes... cept once with Del about 12 years ago...

So that was the intent and the direction I was pushing. Seems that the post was deleted because???? What ever.. THat's irrelevant now.. Comments??

 

[Doug]

Sorry about swisscheesing this topic with my delete button. I was getting rid of some of the off topic posts last night, and I may have accidently nuked one of your posts Danr, and for that I apologize. This is such an important topic that I wanted to make it easier to read and more printer friendly.
Doug

 

[Cdog911]

VH-
Chances are, they're all sitting there in a little circle talking about how they could probably sit back, wait things out, and from the sounds of things, we'll very likely kill one another off. Problem fixed.

Rich H-
Dan's inquiry makes me think as well. In an area of higher coyote density (your AZ versus my area), there seems to be a higher rate of vocalization and communication b/n individuals and packs than what I see hereabouts. Since howling appears to play a social role in establishing and ensuring spatial distribution, can it be surmised that howling rates increase directly with density? And, if so, would howling be more effective a tool in areas with higher density pop'n by eliciting a higher response rate in those areas?

Of interest is a piece I recall from about a year ago where a guy documented his call success for a couple decades in SD or someplace thereabouts. What he observed, anectdotally, was a cyclic fluctuation in coyote numbers over a period of twelve years, starting at the low point and gradually increasing over a period of approximately ten years, then a precipitous drop in numbers back to the (~) low point.

SE- Your coyotes are behaviorally somewhat different in many ways than those out west, it would seem. Probably from the genetic lineage they possess. I think that deciphering their secrets is the next big adventure for callers.

 

[Slydog]

Dan,
It may have been me also as I was almost asleep at the wheel and was doing the same thing, so I'll try to be more carefull and maybe get a little more sleep in tonight

sly

 

[Rich Higgins]

Dan55---Although unstated, the implied question was, considering the increasing densities and the hightened competition for food, would coyotes react by coming to a dinner bell (a call) quicker? It would seem that they would also become more protective on thier territory and quicker to react to a challenge. Faster to plug the breech, if you will.
---------------------------------------------
Dr. P Krausman is head of biology at UofA and he mentors the predator researchers. Perhaps it was he. Actually the territorial residents are always vulnerable for the reason you outlined. Locating them within their defended territory and setting up fairly close is the trick. I don't think higher densities make them more aggresive. Other factors do that. I think it just makes them busier. Defending against more intrusions. And that fact would make adjacent packs and transients a little more cautious and more reluctant to approach your stand within another packs boundaries. Does that make sense? Just conjecture.
---------------------------------------------
Dan55
Putting the two together, if my premise is correct, it seems that with the increasing population density, this would be a great time to be calling and learning to call/howl.
---------------------------------------------
Higher populations would make more targets of opportunity. Increased sign would make scouting and identifying travel corridors easier. But we really don't have an increasing population density statewide in Az. right now. The drought has caused a population shift from the desert to agricultural areas and to developed areas so there are more concentrations near people and fewer animals in the arid areas.