I'm not buying the climate change argument. The lakes freezes over enough to reach the island every few years. I know this because I lived in the UP for 20 years prior to moving to MT in 2017.
House rep: Moose hunt would aid Isle Royale island, hunters
- Thread starter cheeser
- Start date
Sytes
Well-known member
@BWALKER77 regarding a prior post, regarding feeding those who could use;
Overpopulation of ungulates within many National Parks has led to reductions by both hunters and govt employees and the meat most often is given to food banks, tribes, etc.
One event I recall Roosevelt National Park permitted drawn hunters the ability to hunt elk and keep the meat.
SNAP is completely separate from the history of NPS giving ungulate meat to food banks for families in need.
I suppose I was looking at a way to sell the intent for human involved hunts to reduce the moose population. IMO, finding an appeal to bull moose hunters, hunters for meat and support from others to outweigh the animal PETA type opposition, this would be a good means to pitch the activity.
If NPS want to keep with the activity of distributing a % of the meat to food banks... More power to our Federal Government. Finding a win for overpopulated ungulate reduction and a win for assisting those families who could use food is a great success.
I'm good with your perspective NPS should not donate meat to food banks - we disagree. Least we both agree bringing more wolves so science can study wolves become deformed while attempting to reduce the moose population is inexcusable from my perspective. Somehow humans are exempt from Earth's cycle.
Also the ice bridges, as mentioned, is how scientist have explained the recent escape off the island by wolf(ves) they brought for their experiments. Funny... Even they want no part of the moose island. But... Leave it to man, scientist will relocate more maybe with an underground electric wire to zap the wolves as they make their next attempt to escape Alcatraz.
Overpopulation of ungulates within many National Parks has led to reductions by both hunters and govt employees and the meat most often is given to food banks, tribes, etc.
One event I recall Roosevelt National Park permitted drawn hunters the ability to hunt elk and keep the meat.
SNAP is completely separate from the history of NPS giving ungulate meat to food banks for families in need.
I suppose I was looking at a way to sell the intent for human involved hunts to reduce the moose population. IMO, finding an appeal to bull moose hunters, hunters for meat and support from others to outweigh the animal PETA type opposition, this would be a good means to pitch the activity.
If NPS want to keep with the activity of distributing a % of the meat to food banks... More power to our Federal Government. Finding a win for overpopulated ungulate reduction and a win for assisting those families who could use food is a great success.
I'm good with your perspective NPS should not donate meat to food banks - we disagree. Least we both agree bringing more wolves so science can study wolves become deformed while attempting to reduce the moose population is inexcusable from my perspective. Somehow humans are exempt from Earth's cycle.
Also the ice bridges, as mentioned, is how scientist have explained the recent escape off the island by wolf(ves) they brought for their experiments. Funny... Even they want no part of the moose island. But... Leave it to man, scientist will relocate more maybe with an underground electric wire to zap the wolves as they make their next attempt to escape Alcatraz.
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Sytes
Well-known member
A good article within Meateater:
www.themeateater.com
Isle Royale: Save Wolves or Let Them ‘Die For Science?’
The National Park Service released four gray wolves on Isle Royale in northwestern Lake Superior in October 2018 to start rebuilding the island’s severely inbred packs. Three months later, a female from the foursome fled across Superior’s ice toward its home turf on the mainland 15 miles away...
Sytes
Well-known member
Seems the resolution is more of a bipartisan symbolic attempt to encourage the NPS to allow humans to reduce the moose population. Brings us to the next topic you brought up, enabling act.
I looked it up and, as you mentioned and I've now learned about "enabling acts", Isle Royale does have an enabling act and it does not permit hunting.
However, legal precedence has been set by U.S. District Court regarding enabling act for hunting vs culling. Would this not be the same setting?
cheeser
Well-known member
just a little correction: the moose were naturally there all along, the wolves did populate the island on their own as you stated in 40's , however they were on the island right up to current day, there was only 2 surviving when the first transplants were placed 2018. I believe that both have since died/been killed by the new stock.
It all comes down to how the enabling act treats hunting, and how the state enabling act treats reservation of hunting rights (They gave them up in 1931 to the NPS, but not the fishing rights, fyi). I don't have time to go through the whole enabling act right now, but if there is nothing in there about expressly disallowing hunting, then the Secretary of the Interior could theoretically allow for hunting or culling, based upon the need to manage the habitat/vegetative resource, etc. That would be the only way to get that done.
It's important to remember that just because an enabling act doesn't expressly permit hunting, doesn't mean that it expressly ban it either. What isn't in a statute is just as important as what's in it.
brian flatlander
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I'm totally with you have friends up there that say the same thing, it's just another excuse for another gov't study.
Sytes
Well-known member
You have a link regarding moose have been on isle royale all along? Anything is possible and I'm always open to learn more factual info. I try to stick with .gov or scientific research journals/reports.
National Park Service states moose arrived early 1900's. This was well established as 1800-1900 was heavy human activity on the island mining copper. They swam, crossed ice bridges and some websites state the were populated by humans for the purpose of hunting. Here is a quote from NPS (and link)
Regarding wolves science journal by Rolf Peterson shared his sentiment he believed within his study of 2009-2010 wolves would go extinct due to inbreeding, deformities, and death. This developed into the 2018 human transplant of wolves and the challenges they face as wolves continue to leave the island via alleged, non existent ice bridges that wolf scientists state exist. (Bit of climate change humor
)I agree with you, they were not extinct in 2009. I was using Rolf's comments to support the position they would be extinct, if not for human involvement. I should have worded it more clear.
Thanks for clarifying.
cheeser
Well-known member
No link as to the moose first being on island, poor choice of words on my part, should have just said moose migrated there naturally years before the wolves appeared. Which got me thinking the moose must have been migrating pretty regularly as they haven't seemed to have any inbreeding issues???? At least nothing mentioned in all the studies?You have a link regarding moose have been on isle royale all along? Anything is possible and I'm always open to learn more factual info. I try to stick with .gov or scientific research journals/reports.
National Park Service states moose arrived early 1900's. This was well established as 1800-1900 was heavy human activity on the island mining copper. They swam, crossed ice bridges and some websites state the were populated by humans for the purpose of hunting. Here is a quote from NPS (and link)
Regarding wolves science journal by Rolf Peterson shared his sentiment he believed within his study of 2009-2010 wolves would go extinct due to inbreeding, deformities, and death. This developed into the 2018 human transplant of wolves and the challenges they face as wolves continue to leave the island via alleged, non existent ice bridges that wolf scientists state exist. (Bit of climate change humor
I agree with you, they were not extinct in 2009. I was using Rolf's comments to support the position they would be extinct, if not for human involvement. I should have worded it more clear.
Thanks for clarifying.
Sytes
Well-known member
Isle Royale: Are the $2 Million Wolf Reintroductions Working?
Riddle me this: How can a male wolf be both father and half-brother to a female wolf? Answer: By breeding their shared mother. Just such an Oedipal pairing about a decade ago begat what became the lone surviving “native-born” wolf duo on Isle Royale National Park in northwestern Lake Superior...
Ehh, I don’t think wolves were the right answer. I don’t think hunters were the right answer.
If memory serves Michigan’s neighbor, Wisconsin, has more people die from heart attacks getting deer out of the woods than hunting accidents. Just imagine some of those Yoopers knocking down a moose and not knowing where to start.
If memory serves Michigan’s neighbor, Wisconsin, has more people die from heart attacks getting deer out of the woods than hunting accidents. Just imagine some of those Yoopers knocking down a moose and not knowing where to start.
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