Horse, llama, goat pack animals

[AvidIndoorsman]

I'm guessing around 30 pounds per mini donk. But shoot you could probably fit 4 in your car and be set for muley camp.

I was figuring that a mini would weigh around 250 and therefore pack say ~80 or approx ~30% of it's weight... do you think this is off?

 

[Kharper]

I'm trying the goat route. No experience packing them yet as they are still too young, but they are willing hikers and followers. Llamas are not very affordable in my area and horses take more room than I have. No bighorns where I live so that isn't an issue, sure hoping they can help pack hunting and fishing camps in a few miles and deer, hogs and bears back out!

 

[TwistedSage]

I was figuring that a mini would weigh around 250 and therefore pack say ~80 or approx ~30% of it's weight... do you think this is off?

Sounds like your right on the mark. At first I was thinking the minis would be closer to 100 150ish but after checking it out they average 200-450. There are some minis around here that I would call a toy version that seem to bread for sale as pets only. Then there are quite a few that seem to be about that 300 lb range that you see as pint size guardian donkey's and they look more than capable of hauling 60-80 lbs. You may be on to something here.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Sounds like your right on the mark. At first I was thinking the minis would be closer to 100 150ish but after checking it out they average 200-450. There are some minis around here that I would call a toy version that seem to bread for sale as pets only. Then there are quite a few that seem to be about that 300 lb range that you see as pint size guardian donkey's and they look more than capable of hauling 60-80 lbs. You may be on to something here.

That’s what I like to here!

 

[rwc101]

I don't know anything about goats or donkeys, but having Bolivian relatives I can say llamas don't taste too bad. Useful if you leave a tag unpunched.

 

[BrentD]

Take this with a grain of salt as I have limited experience with stock ownership, I do however have a donkey. I was told it was a burro bought about 6 years ago, rancher was getting out of the business and she was destined for the glue factory. I was looking for a guardian animal for my small sheep herd at the time and picked her up for a smooth 75 bucks.

She bonded great with the sheep and was very intuitive as to what I was trying to do. If she saw me start gathering sheep and hearding then back towards the pen she was circle around gathering them and bring up the rear helping me heard them right in. When lambs were born she wouldn't leave thier side for the first couple days. Always a keen eye out. She loves human interaction as well as long as you dont have a rope in your hand.

I figured with how smart she was she may be trainable. I have tried every wich way to approach here with a bridle. As soon as she sees any rope she will not come within 30 yards and you can tell she is stressed.

I looked a bit more in to donkeys and learned that they have one of the best memories and can be the hardest to break of a bad learned habit or to get past a bad experience. The stubbornness of the donkey.

But it is the donkeys heartiness(can do much better with lower quality forage) and memory/retention that are the desired traits being passed to the mule along with the horses physical atributes and willingness to train.

There was a recent episode of meateater podcast that had a mule skinner on and he spoke about because of that donkey memory trait in mules that it was better to get a completely green or completely trained mule because getting one that is a little strained or badly trained it is almost impossible to retrain it.

If you can get a donkey or burro for packing on the cheapView attachment 119998 Im thinking it's best to get one that just weaned that you have the time to train up.

Have you tried Clicker training? My wife can do amazing things with a pocket of celery or carrot pieces and just clucking her tongue.

 

[TwistedSage]

Have you tried Clicker training? My wife can do amazing things with a pocket of celery or carrot pieces and just clucking her tongue.

She will come up to me just for the attention and I can lift her head and her legs and muscle her around a bit of course food keeps her close when I'm being a bother. It's when that bridle/rope comes out that she becomes a different donkey. I've even had it in the feed bucket so she couldn't see me approaching with it, when she saw it at arms length she bolted and looked at me like like I betrayed the trust, wouldn't come around for about a week. I've gone through that scenario about 4 times before I said it's not gonna happen. After reading Neffas post I think i owe it another go in a makeshift catch pen where she cant get away and see where that goes. Although at this point she is doing her job with the sheep perfectly and I realize if I wanted a pack animal it would have to be a dedicated pack/work animal.

 

[BrentD]

I'd bet a case of beer, I could clicker train her do whatever I wanted. I'm not horse whisperer, but it's not hard. My wife could get her to paint pictures for you. But the rope and bridle would not be where she would start. Operant conditioning, done right, will work every time. Patience is golden, of course.

 

[TwistedSage]

I'd bet a case of beer, I could clicker train her do whatever I wanted. I'm not horse whisperer, but it's not hard. My wife could get her to paint pictures for you. But the rope and bridle would not be where she would start. Operant conditioning, done right, will work every time. Patience is golden, of course.

I'd skip the bet and buy the beer just to watch and learn. Have you any recommendations on reading material for operant conditioning? Per my earlier mentioned inexperience I've just heard and assumed bridle training is where you start. I'm sure in that I'm taking for granted all of the smaller steps folks take to get to that point.

 

[BrentD]

Twisted. I wish you lived down the road. Be fun to see your donk and see what could be done. For sure, however, being a smarter than average equid, once she knows what clicker training is all about she will learn super fast. But to start, you gotta go slow. SSSSLLLOOOWWWW. Like that.

If you google for operant learning, you will probably get behavior and psychology textbooks, but look for clicker training and you will find what you need. My wife really likes the training books and videos put together by this woman

Clicker Training for Your Horse: Alexandra Kurland: 9781890948351: Amazon.com: Books

Clicker Training for Your Horse [Alexandra Kurland] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Clicker Training for Your Horse

www.amazon.com

they are quite good, but the trick is that you need to know how to do it first. We don't use the handheld clicker but just click with our tongues at the very instant that the horse does something we want. Often it does it by accident, like moving it's head. But having done it once or twice by accident, and knowing that a click is ALWAYS followed by a reward, then she will try it again and suddenly she has begun to learn that you want something and she can do it. Starting slow it something like lowering her head or touching your hand is a good way to start.

Once you get the paradigm established then hang a halter on a gate 50 ft away and go stand with her. If she takes a step towards the gate, click. Might take a while and a lot of time might be spent going the wrong way, but it's that process of getting her trust and it will go much faster as she learns and trusts you. As with dogs, keep the training sessions frequent but short.

Anyway, it's pretty fun and if we can teach a horse anything, anyone can, but my wife is better at it than most - because she is patient like I can never be.

Like I said, you can teach a smart horse to paint a picture.

 

[OverlordBear]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F8%2F82%2F2011_Trampeltier_1528.JPG%2F1200px-2011_Trampeltier_1528.JPG&f=1&nofb=1

Has anyone thought about using bacterian camels from the gobi desert.
I think that would be super cool and it would be like a mobile tree stand.

 

[TwistedSage]

Well I'll be damned @BrentD, made some huge progress in the last day and a half. Thank you for the links. Two sessions of establishing the positive reinforcement with clicking and then handling more and more close in.

First session today more of the same then bringing in the halter right at the end dropping it on the ground and walking up to her for some more hands on ended with going over the the halter and having her walk up to me standing over it with a click and some treats. Went out again and was able to throw it over my shoulder and have her walk up to me but anything I went to grab it she'd circle away and stand off.

Went out one more time and I think it all really started to click. Got the halter on and went for a short stroll. When I took it off she got a handful of treats instead of the bites while clicking and ended it. I hope next time shell just be excited to see it.

 

[BrentD]

That is so perfect! Ending on a jackpot like that will be remembered. This makes my day, and my wife's too. She is really into it. Your donk will be a great pal and you will be able do anything eventually. The more they learn, the more they want to learn and the faster they learn it. The books will help with complex things and show you how to break things down into small steps, but you have already mastered that it appears. Congratulations! With a little practice you could have a hunting tag-along pack burro. That would be pretty slick.

I just gave one of our horses a 2 oz syringe of some medicinal herbs and with the clicker training he starts drooling when he seem me pull out the syringe, because he knows what to do.

You could clicker train those cats too . The wife even clicker trains her ducks.

 

[BrentD]

This picture was from training Rusty to carry meat. This is a boned out mule deer that he had no problem with. He will never do this for real, but he certainly could if a certain blond would trust me to take him. This took about 10 minutes, and it as the first time he had ever had a bag of meat on his back.

 

[Sytes]

10 minutes from zero to meat is almost unbelievable though as I've not tried such, I'm not one to judge. Grats.

 

[BrentD]

10 minutes from zero to meat is almost unbelievable though as I've not tried such, I'm not one to judge. Grats.

Rusty is a pretty curious horse. And he knew he was playing a game. If you look at the mat he is standing on, he associates that with training and doing whatever we ask. It's pretty fun to watch him get all wound up knowing it is training time when that comes out. Our other haflinger at the time would take much more work to get that point.

 

[Irrelevant]

@BrentD you've got me feeling a lot better about trying a burro.

 

[BrentD]

@BrentD you've got me feeling a lot better about trying a burro.

Hey! Don't blame me!!!

If you do not have livestock you should know that horses (and by extension, burros, llamas and so forth) are not just livestock. They are LIFESTYLES!

Someone told me this. I heard, it I considered it, and I never understood it until I was in it.

Just so you know.


PS. I am not an expert on anything with odd numbered toes.

 

[kansasdad]

You could clicker train those cats too . The wife even clicker trains her ducks.

Perhaps it is time to evaluate how she has “clicker” trained YOU good professor!?!?