Help with .308 load

[Redmt]

I've never gone outside the book to try experimental loads.
I have a couple hundred 180gr, .308 tipped copper bullets that I bought in bulk and 'assumed' were GMX. I also have 8# of 4166. Can somebody come up with a starting load? PLEASE??

 

[Bambistew]

IMR 4064 is very similar in burn rate to 4166, I'd start with 4064 starting loads and work up

 

[Redmt]

Hornady lists several 180 gr. bullets but nothing with the polymer tip. Should I just go with a 34 gr of the 4166?

 

[mtmuley]

That looks like an E-Tip. mtmuley

 

[MThuntr]

That looks like an E-Tip. mtmuley

That's what I was going to say

 

[mtmuley]

That's what I was going to say

Or maybe an Accutip. mtmuley

 

[Redmt]

The E-tips have a green tip? This is sort of tan-ish. I'll go ask the other half, she's not color blind.

 

[Redmt]

She said they're sort of faded yellow. I cut one in half and it's definitely solid copper

 

[Bambistew]

The tip color could be changed if they were special run or blems. I've shot plenty of Accubonds with tips that were not white.

Those look like Hornady bullets to me. Nosler doesn't have rings/grooves. Others have more than 2 rings on 180s. Are you 100% sure they're 180gr and mono? That would be the the most important part of selecting a powder IMO. I've experimented with lots of powders/cartridges that don't have "load data" available in the past. I look at burn rates and compare to similar bullet construction and charges. Note that the minimum published charges can be damn near as dangerous as the max, so don't under charge it "just to be safe." If you have any sort of hang fire, don't shoot the rest, you need more powder.

Hodgdon lists IMR 4166 load of 41-45.2gr and IMR 4064 40.7-45.1 (cup/core bullet)
Nosler lists IMR 4064 load of 39-43gr with 4064 (all bullet types including mono and partitions which have higher pressures)
Speer lists IMR4166 load of 36-40gr and 39-43gr IMR4064 (cup/core bullets)
Sierra Lists IMR4064 starting load of 36.7-42.8 (cup/core bullet)

There is tons of reasons for variations, the biggest being case type, some cases hold more powder than others. You can be over max in one case but not another with the exact same charge.

I'd load up 36gr and run with it and look at various manuals to get an idea of what "max" will be. Look for typical pressure sings and work up from there in half grain increments looking for what shoots best. 36gr will be similar in speed to a spitwad.

Good luck!

 

[Redmt]

I have weighed probably 10 of them
They run 180-181 and they are definitely solid.
My problem is my manuals are all hand me downs. I've always done point and pick loads from books and mfg. websites. I'm not adventurous enough to conjure up a non book load and run with it. The old nosler book I have says 44gr. IMR 4064 as max. load. Another load book shows 43 gr. as max load. The min loads are at 39 and 40 for the 4064 powder.
BTW spitwads can be very effective if chambered correctly.

 

[nhenry]

There once was a 180 GMX, if memory serves me right. It had no boat tail, though.

Those really look like GMXs to me, but the tip is throwing me off.

If you can, try to shoot one of them into a row of gallon water jugs and catch it. I'm wondering about the expansion.

 

[MThuntr]

After looking around I bet they're GMX bullets with a green tip made for an ammo company and these are overruns from that batch. My thing with these is they are incredibly long bullets...180 coppers are as long as 208 ELD-M. I'd approach the load low with books mentioning 39 grains for cup and core bullets you could be in a mild load range already.

i wonder if performance out of a 308 with those heavy duty gilding metal bullets will be less than stellar...getting 2500fps out of that combo might be a generous load. You reach minimum expansion velocity at 300 yards. It's probably a non-issue but a concern as these bullets really don't expand much.

 

[Redmt]

There once was a 180 GMX, if memory serves me right. It had no boat tail, though.

Those really look like GMXs to me, but the tip is throwing me off.

If you can, try to shoot one of them into a row of gallon water jugs and catch it. I'm wondering about the expansion.

How many water jugs do you figure it would take and at what range?

 

[Bambistew]

I have weighed probably 10 of them
They run 180-181 and they are definitely solid.
My problem is my manuals are all hand me downs. I've always done point and pick loads from books and mfg. websites. I'm not adventurous enough to conjure up a non book load and run with it. The old nosler book I have says 44gr. IMR 4064 as max. load. Another load book shows 43 gr. as max load. The min loads are at 39 and 40 for the 4064 powder.
BTW spitwads can be very effective if chambered correctly.

The book max may be over max in your rifle. They are also a guide, albeit they tend to be on the safe side, but not always. I have a 260, that flattens primers and gets sticky well before I reach the max listed charge using the same cases, bullets, powders primers listed in Nosler's book.

 

[Redmt]

I have noticed that Nosler tends to list charges higher than other book loads. Hammer Bullets has recommended using Nosler data for their bullets. The science of components substitution is something I don't know about,,, therefore, I stick to using the knowledge presented by smarter people than me.

 

[nhenry]

How many water jugs do you figure it would take and at what range?

Line up like 8-10 and shoot it at 25 yards. It’ll probably take like 5 but you don’t want it escaping

This is what one looks like when caught

 

[cahunter805]

I have noticed that Nosler tends to list charges higher than other book loads. Hammer Bullets has recommended using Nosler data for their bullets. The science of components substitution is something I don't know about,,, therefore, I stick to using the knowledge presented by smarter people than me.

Nosler also recommends when loading lead free bullets to use the mid powder charge as max load also.
I’d start somewhere around 36gr and work up in .5gr increments until you hit some pressure sign then back it down a grain or 2.

 

[Redmt]

OK!! Here's the plan,,, I'm going to load some new brass with one of's at 36, 36.5,37 etc. and run them across the chrono. I'll watch for signs of overload. When I reach 2300fps I'll start fine tuning for group with the fire formed cases. I'm pretty lucky that I can load and then shoot right outside. I'm collecting gallon jugs for the expansion tests. If any of you see a flaw in this let me know. I should have the first test rounds in a couple hours.

 

[N2TRKYS]

That seems awful heavy for a mono out of a 308. Good luck.

 

[Redmt]

Powder or bullets?