Have issues with solid copper

[Fredrickeder]

I reloaded some solid coppers for my 270 and 243. When I tested the rounds had some great groups. Reloaded the powder and depth for the great groups. Then I went out to sight in the rifles. Had a lot of issues with accuracy. Any ideas?

 

[Fredrickeder]

Forgot they are hornady cx. .270 is 130gr and the .243 is 80gr

 

[Laelkhunter]

Might be your barrel is fouled with the copper. If you shot cup & core bullets and didn't thoroughly clean the barrel before shooting the monos, they will foul more than if shot from a clean bore. Conversely, if you shoot monos, you should completely clean the bore before shooting cup & core bullets. That's what I have heard for what it's worth. Could be a place to start. Completely clean the barrel with a copper solvent until the patches come out clean (with no blue on them), fire a fouling shot, then shoot again for your group.

 

[Fredrickeder]

Never thought of it I’m pretty good about cleaning my guns after shooting but this time I don’t think I did. I will get the copper solvent and go from there. Thanks for the info.

 

[BRI]

I spent a fair bit of time trying to develop a load for my 243 with the 90 grain Hornday CX. Got some interesting pressure spikes at the low end of the powder charges with H4350 and H4831SC and never found anything that good so I gave up on them for now. The 150 grain CX are shooting great in my 280AI behind RL23 and I'm going to give them a go this year.

 

[Fredrickeder]

I spent a fair bit of time trying to develop a load for my 243 with the 90 grain Hornday CX. Got some interesting pressure spikes at the low end of the powder charges with H4350 and H4831SC and never found anything that good so I gave up on them for now. The 150 grain CX are shooting great in my 280AI behind RL23 and I'm going to give them a go this year.

Ya I went back to my vmax just don’t like how they work on game. They don’t run far. I would rather have a more solid bullet for game.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

There’s a happy medium between vmax and cx!

You said you had some great groups initially with the cx, how many great groups? How many shots in a group? Were they all good or did you have some that weren’t that good?

 

[Fredrickeder]

There’s a happy medium between vmax and cx!

You said you had some great groups initially with the cx, how many great groups? How many shots in a group? Were they all good or did you have some that weren’t that good?

So loaded 9 Rounds with IMR 4831. 3 per group of powder weight. Both the .270 and .243. The erratic shooting on the .270 I thought the scope was crap but took out my 150gr sst and group where I wanted. 243 the group was just spending out. When I tested the rounds they had all the same seating depth. I believe in the med range of powder I was testing the group of 3 were touching. So I reload those ones to sight in.

 

[Addicting]

I would check the twist on your rifle versus the twist required for the bullets. My bed is you don’t have enough.

 

[Fredrickeder]

I would check the twist on your rifle versus the twist required for the bullets. My bed is you don’t have enough.

On the .270 I was thinking that it is an older gun. But the .243 has a fast enough twisted rate to do 100gr and 105gr bullets. I’m not 100% sure what twiste rate but I believe it’s 1:8.

 

[Addicting]

Copper likes a jump, how far are you off the lands? Barnes recommends starting at .050 jump. I’ve had them as far as .120 before a group tightens up.


Your process is vague in your first post. At what distance did you test powder charges that you had good groups? Then at what distance did you try and sight in for?

Do you have a chronograph? Where they tested for a speed node?

 

[Fredrickeder]

Copper likes a jump, how far are you off the lands? Barnes recommends starting at .050 jump. I’ve had them as far as .120 before a group tightens up.


Your process is vague in your first post. At what distance did you test powder charges that you had good groups? Then at what distance did you try and sight in for?

Do you have a chronograph? Where they tested for a speed node?

The seating depth I started with was .010 off the lands. And testing powders I always do a 100 yards and same with my sight in process. My buddy has a chronograph but I usually wait until after I test to see which powder or seating depth I want to reload at. My big issue when I tested everything was good to go for the .243 the bullets were touching and now I can’t get them to group. But I can definitely try different seating depth.

 

[Fredrickeder]

Copper likes a jump, how far are you off the lands? Barnes recommends starting at .050 jump. I’ve had them as far as .120 before a group tightens up.


Your process is vague in your first post. At what distance did you test powder charges that you had good groups? Then at what distance did you try and sight in for?

Do you have a chronograph? Where they tested for a speed node?

The .243 is a nail driver. Everything I have shot out of it On my reloads the group wouldn’t spread more the 2-3in at 100yards.I choose the test rounds that touch or have less then a 1/2 group. But the cx one group was almost 5-6in.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

So loaded 9 Rounds with IMR 4831. 3 per group of powder weight. Both the .270 and .243. The erratic shooting on the .270 I thought the scope was crap but took out my 150gr sst and group where I wanted. 243 the group was just spending out. When I tested the rounds they had all the same seating depth. I believe in the med range of powder I was testing the group of 3 were touching. So I reload those ones to sight in.

If I'm reading this right, you had one 3 shot group (out of the 3 with different charge weights) that shot well in the .243, you duplicated that load, and it didn't shoot as well the second time around?

Lots of people fall into the trap of thinking a 3 round group tells you something when in most cases it tells us very little. If a guy with a solid hunting rifle and better than average shooting abilities takes a quality box of ammo and shoots all 20 rounds at the same POA, i'd guess a lot of those groups are going to fall into 1.5-2.5 MOA range. Within that 20 shot group, there's probably a handful of combinations of different 3 shot groups that would be pretty good and a handful that would be pretty poor. Which 3 shot group you get is much more likely caused by randomness than any little powder charge or seating depth tweak.

 

[Fredrickeder]

If I'm reading this right, you had one 3 shot group (out of the 3 with different charge weights) that shot well in the .243, you duplicated that load, and it didn't shoot as well the second time around?

Lots of people fall into the trap of thinking a 3 round group tells you something when in most cases it tells us very little. If a guy with a solid hunting rifle and better than average shooting abilities takes a quality box of ammo and shoots all 20 rounds at the same POA, i'd guess a lot of those groups are going to fall into 1.5-2.5 MOA range. Within that 20 shot group, there's probably a handful of combinations of different 3 shot groups that would be pretty good and a handful that would be pretty poor. Which 3 shot group you get is much more likely caused by randomness than any little powder charge or seating depth tweak.

Ya I can definitely see that. Not to brag about me im definitely a better shot than most people I know. Prior military had a lot of shooting practice even at long range. So with that said. What group sizes you recommend other than 3?

 

[Addicting]

The .243 is a nail driver. Everything I have shot out of it On my reloads the group wouldn’t spread more the 2-3in at 100yards.I choose the test rounds that touch or have less then a 1/2 group. But the cx one group was almost 5-6in.

This is confusing and I really don’t understand what your trying to say.

 

[Fredrickeder]

This is confusing and I really don’t understand what your trying to say.

Sorry when back a read it. Was confused myself. My .243 while shooting my reloads has always group really really well. Never had a group that was more than 3 inches. Even with stock ammo. But with the 80gr hornady cx bullets one group I shot was about 5-6 inches. That group was during sighting in. All the test and sighting in is at 100yards.

 

[Addicting]

How I do mine is different than what you’re doing.

Load 10 with the same powder at .2 grains apart. Shoot over chronograph and Chart velocity.

If velocity is acceptable move on to groups at the middle of whatever node is present. Example .4 to .8 are within 15fps. You would load groups of 3 @ .6.

Now seating depth.

.010 off is too close for copper. Let’s start 3 at .050, 3 at .075, 3 at .100, 3 at .120.

Decopper your barrel and shoot 2 fouling shots.

Shoot the groups of 3. One will clearly stand out best.

Load that group in a quantity of 5. Shoot it to confirm the 3 we’re not a fluke. If it is repeated you are 90% there if accuracy was acceptable. You can fine tune from there. Copper doesn’t care about .005 difference. Fine tuning is .010 either side of the group that was verified.

 

[Addicting]

That process can be cut down if components are an issue. But it works every time.

However some guns don’t like some bullets. It will be evident by the end of the 4 3 shot groups.

 

[Fredrickeder]

How I do mine is different than what you’re doing.

Load 10 with the same powder at .2 grains apart. Shoot over chronograph and Chart velocity.

If velocity is acceptable move on to groups at the middle of whatever node is present. Example .4 to .8 are within 15fps. You would load groups of 3 @ .6.

Now seating depth.

.010 off is too close for copper. Let’s start 3 at .050, 3 at .075, 3 at .100, 3 at .120.

Decopper your barrel and shoot 2 fouling shots.

Shoot the groups of 3. One will clearly stand out best.

Load that group in a quantity of 5. Shoot it to confirm the 3 we’re not a fluke. If it is repeated you are 90% there if accuracy was acceptable. You can fine tune from there. Copper doesn’t care about .005 difference. Fine tuning is .010 either side of the group that was verified.

I’m going to try this. Thank you so much for the information. The only person that had experience reloading in my life is no longer with me. So trying to teach myself I think I have done alright so far. Just the solid coppers threw me a loop.