Genetics question

[T Bone]

Question for you educated people out there.

I've always heard that it takes old mature buck deer and bull elk to keep the gene pool healthy.

How is it any different if a 1.5 year old breeds vs the same male breeding as an 8 year old animal. It's the same genetics reguardless of age. i.e genetic recipe is the same for any single animal it's entire lifespan, no?

Please help. I'm dazed, confused, and bored.

 

[Dinkshooter]

How is it any different if a 1.5 year old breeds vs the same male breeding as an 8 year old animal. It's the same genetics reguardless of age. i.e genetic recipe is the same for any single animal it's entire lifespan, no?

That is my uneducated thought as well.


Just dazed and confused

 

[justdada]

I'm shooting from the hip here, but I believe it to be more about the strongest (ergo the older) bulls passing on their genes.
Having survived a few winters and reached his max weight, he would have a better chance of passing "the best" genes while fighting off less fit bulls/bucks, as compared to a random 1.5 year old.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Question for you educated people out there.

I've always heard that it takes old mature buck deer and bull elk to keep the gene pool healthy.

How is it any different if a 1.5 year old breeds vs the same male breeding as an 8 year old animal. It's the same genetics reguardless of age. i.e genetic recipe is the same for any single animal it's entire lifespan, no?

Please help. I'm dazed, confused, and bored.

T-bone,

Switch from deer/elk to people and you will find your answer. Age has nothing to do with the genetics, the only thing you could argue is that it allows you to clearly see who's genetic potential was achieved and who was too stupid to survive.

 

[GatoMan]

The way its been put to me is that mature bucks/bulls have more stamina/drive to breed more #'s in a short time window, just go out and observe deer during the rut, you won't see any footsore forked horns hobbling around from travelin and breeding lots of hot does in a small window of time that they have. They say in the spring when the calves and fawns are born they do so in a narrower time frame, allowing them to be more mature/healthier going into there first winter. Usually the late ones being born out of that window are smaller and in a hard winter are the first ones to kill off. Oregon did studys on this in there starky experimental area, don't know if you can read about it online, but I have read about it somewhere and thats basically the just of it.

 

[1_pointer]

Age has nothing to do with the genetics, the only thing you could argue is that it allows you to clearly see who's genetic potential was achieved and who was too stupid to survive.

+1

 

[IDHunters]

Gatoman is on track.

Genetics are there regardless of age. Knowledge comes with "experience". In my opinion getting the does bred early and in a short time frame (first heat) is the key and yearling bucks/bulls don't have the know how. Breed the does late and you have an extended fawning/calving season which increases predation and then leads to lower body weight going into the winter.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

I wouldn't say that it takes "old" bucks and bulls to keep the gene pool healthy. From what I've seen and from what I've been told it requires a mature, heathy and vigiorous buck or bull to establish and maintain his dominance as far as generalized breeding is concerned. And it's not always the animal with the biggest antlers or body size either. The breeding buck or bull is the one on his way up in the world and is big and strong enough to do something about it. A older, really big buck or bull that was king last year can easily be declassified to the ranks of being a non-breeder by any strong, dominate newcomer that can maintain his status.

 

[mdcrossbow]

Have you ever watched an old doe being dogged by a young 2.5 year old and then this old 6-8 YO buck comes running in and jumps her. The young 2.5 year old is standing at the side lines betting the bushes and making all kinds of noise just being pissed because he was rejected.
The younger doe's get hammered by the young scrapping bucks that win the fight match but the old dominate doe's prefer to chose their mate.

 

[KimLeeJung]

I know that if the genes aren't there, a man can get to be 40 yoa plus, and still be a midget. Case in point, Big Stick...

 

[TLC]

everything above plus a younger buck may have some sort of accident during the velvet stage that could impair antler growth later on in its life.

 

[KimLeeJung]

I like your analogy of a 1.5 yoa elk or buck. The genes would be the same when they get to be 7 yoa. However, one might argue that natural selection might have eliminated those with weaker genes if ALL males were allowed to maturity...

 

[Jaeger22]

The only thing to be gained as the deer grows older is his ability to dominate the lesser deer (therefor having MORE opportunity to pass his genes) and the fact that more breeding seasons will provide more opportunity. The genes NEVER change. I've always known how actually silly that premise is.

 

[Tom]

The only thing to be gained as the deer grows older is his ability to dominate the lesser deer (therefor having MORE opportunity to pass his genes) and the fact that more breeding seasons will provide more opportunity. The genes NEVER change. I've always known how actually silly that premise is.

The lesser gened bucks will be dead, by the time the good gened buck is old and breeds. That's how the gene pool changes.

 

[mtmiller]

Many bucks in TX will live a long time due to evading hunters year after year; however, rabbits tend get cleaned out regularly.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9WypbzC6mi8

 

[Tom]

Majestic and evasive wild Rocky Mountain Elk on the other hand are hard to find, and not such an easy target as a rabbit, eh? Its in their genes, that's what some say. I think it has to do with hunting pressure more than genes, myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKeUkiA1ag&feature=related

 

[drahthaar]

I think mdcrossbow hit the nail on the head. The does decide who they are receptive to in the end. It isn't the age of the bucks so much as the ratio of bucks to does, closer to 1:1 the better. More competition the better, let the does decide, they do quite well.