Fixing social security

[AvidIndoorsman]

I think it about respect.

If you respect someone, you expect something of them. Pushing people to the side and saying, "were just gonna pick up your tab for life because you're too stupid or poor to figure this out," is disrespectful.

You'd be surprised what humans are capable of when you expect something out of them instead of giving them everyone else's money.

What if the "guardrails" for society were given privately and voluntarily? There are plenty of people who already give to private charities more than they pay for SS tax.

Read about company towns both in the US and England.

Read about Teddy Roosevelt and what the actual bull moose party was about.

Read about the roaring 20s, robber barons, and then FDRs great society.

I do think you get what I mean by guard rails, for instance pollution. History has shown that unrestrained capitalism will destroy and poison everything, half the waterways in MI still have dioxins from the 50s and you can’t eat the fish. Rivers that burned, etc etc. The EPA, clean air and water act, are guard rails.

Similarly, there need to be rules about how you can treat your labor force. Wages, hours, retirement, etc.

 

[TN2shot07]

The math of the program doesn’t work that way. The higher income people who don’t need SS will drop out. The middle class and lower income level people struggling financially will drop out to make ends meet, pay off CCs or to buy a boat. You’re left with a program that will collapse. The other eventual issue is what to do with the large amount of people with no retirement income in the future. No one supports their elderly parents anymore. Some other type of social program would emerge in the future.

I think long term, if it’s established that the government has to be involved in this process, then “retirement” needs to be separated from ss. There is definitely a difference in the security net and a retirement fund.

The security net needs a complete overhaul, no matter how wealthy the US is we shouldn’t have generational welfare going on.

The retirement piece could be very similar to a tsp, payments should reflect what you paid in, so if you only have dead end jobs your entire life your retirement will reflect that just like a 401k would. Absolutely no access to the funds except as your monthly payout once you hit whatever age.

It’s unfortunate we can’t hold people accountable and let them be responsible for their own future. I’m acknowledging that s*** happens, which is why I’m not in favor of doing away with ss.

 

[Trial153]

If we as a society can’t see the value in helping to care for the elderly and infirm then we are morally bankrupt no matter how financially sound we maybe.

I really scoff at the idea that individual philanthropy is the answer versus investing in a society that collectively looks after its own. Especially considering that we have tax code that has basically has been designed to use charitable giving as tool to widen financial inequality.

I voted that I don’t know the answer to social security issue. I doubt a complex problem has single answer however I feel that the program is obviously good for society as whole and it should remain and be solvent

 

[Derek44]

I think long term, if it’s established that the government has to be involved in this process, then “retirement” needs to be separated from ss. There is definitely a difference in the security net and a retirement fund.

The security net needs a complete overhaul, no matter how wealthy the US is we shouldn’t have generational welfare going on.

The retirement piece could be very similar to a tsp, payments should reflect what you paid in, so if you only have dead end jobs your entire life your retirement will reflect that just like a 401k would. Absolutely no access to the funds except as your monthly payout once you hit whatever age.

It’s unfortunate we can’t hold people accountable and let them be responsible for their own future. I’m acknowledging that s*** happens, which is why I’m not in favor of doing away with ss.

I absolutely agree with you on the generational welfare. One thing I’m not understanding in your response though is I don’t think you’re understanding the difference between Social Security (SS) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI). They are already separate and SS is already based on the criteria you set forth. ie wages earned and productive time contributed in the workforce. That is what’s funded with the 12.4% that is paid by an employee and their employer and there is no access to these funds until you hit a certain age or become disabled and can’t work. Even that disability amount is calculated on past wages and contributions.
SSI is the program that has tendencies to be taken advantage of and can be paid out by claiming even drug addiction as your reason for help. This program is funded through income taxes and such. General fund basically for lack of better terminology. These differences are very important to take into account when deciding how to vote or who to vote for on said platforms. It can be confusing because it is administered by the same entity even though funded from different sources.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Yelen says it's insolvent by 2034. So if you believe her it has 10 years left.

 

[TN2shot07]

I absolutely agree with you on the generational welfare. One thing I’m not understanding in your response though is I don’t think you’re understanding the difference between Social Security (SS) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI). They are already separate and SS is already based on the criteria you set forth. ie wages earned and productive time contributed in the workforce. That is what’s funded with the 12.4% that is paid by an employee and their employer and there is no access to these funds until you hit a certain age or become disabled and can’t work. Even that disability amount is calculated on past wages and contributions.
SSI is the program that has tendencies to be taken advantage of and can be paid out by claiming even drug addiction as your reason for help. This program is funded through income taxes and such. General fund basically for lack of better terminology. These differences are very important to take into account when deciding how to vote or who to vote for on said platforms. It can be confusing because it is administered by the same entity even though funded from different sources.

Sorry, I should have clarified that better.

I do understand that it’s currently different and not funded by the same kind of tax, ssi is more of a general fund item. My thought was if everyone had a “retirement” ss and a separate ssi tax (that we’re paying for anyway) listed on their check stub maybe they’d be more inclined to hold politicians accountable for it. Also, limiting ssi to paying out no more than comes in like ss is set up now may help curb some of the abuse. As longs as it’s funded as part of the federal budget politicians will continue to make insane campaign promises with that money.

 

[Derek44]

Sorry, I should have clarified that better.

I do understand that it’s currently different and not funded by the same kind of tax, ssi is more of a general fund item. My thought was if everyone had a “retirement” ss and a separate ssi tax (that we’re paying for anyway) listed on their check stub maybe they’d be more inclined to hold politicians accountable for it. Also, limiting ssi to paying out no more than comes in like ss is set up now may help curb some of the abuse. As longs as it’s funded as part of the federal budget politicians will continue to make insane campaign promises with that money.

I see. Just a little more transparency. That too would be a great thing. I get you.

 

[Buffs35]

 

[rjthehunter]

F the government. They're a bunch of crooked thieves lining their own pockets. (Most of them).

I've been told by several people (who I'm guessing are more in the know than most here) that SS will be gone by the time I'm able to collect. I wish they'd let people fend for themselves. I really don't want them doing anything extra.

What percentage of tax money is used for important things, vs money wasted? I'm assuming most of us can agree on what's wasted.

I'd rather keep my money and be able to invest it on my own ways vs giving the government even more control over my life.

 

[SAJ-99]

At some point, willful ignorance is the only explanation for the lack of understanding of how the government works or where your money goes.

 

[Cornbread]

If someone invested 130,500 themselves over 30 years, they’d have enough money for private medical insurance for the rest of their life and then some.

Why do so many assume that the government is the only thing that can take care of them?

A government big and powerful enough to provide everything to you is also big and powerful enough to take it all away.

Wrong. You would be surprised and shocked if you found out what private health insurance would cost at age 65, 70, 75, 80, 85. Your jaw would drop.

 

[Cornbread]

Churches are already doing this. They are using money from those who voluntarily gave it for that purpose. It is how society works.

Churches are responsible for more homeless beds in America than the government.

Faith-Based Organizations Shoulder Majority of Crucial Services and Develop Creative Solutions for Homelessness, New Baylor University Study Says

news.web.baylor.edu

When people are in a hole, the Charities come to pad the hole, instead of life forcing that person to dig himself out of that hole. Just sayin'

 

[Cornbread]

Yeah, we advocate for crazy things like liberty, property rights and wanting the government to leave us the fck alone.

We don't think the federal reserve system is beneficial to the nation because we've seen what happens when we simply keep printing money we can't back up. Spending money you don't have has always ended well, right?

We would like if people had the freedom to give to charity only through voluntary means, not forcibly.

We don't think America should be the world's police force and would like to stay out of wars that don't directly tie to the defense of our country.

We have crazy ideas like striving towards a completely free market, absent of government interference and intrusion.

And us fascinating creatures think the 2nd Amendment is important to protecting our liberty.

And we don't blindly and naively trust the government to make the best use of our tax money.

We are fascinating...

I would say that tge bulk of the American people are moochers that want a handout and be bailed out of their own incompetence. And a large minority are enablers of bad behavior. It's a cancer that will take us down. I have the prayer rug out praying for a debt crisis.

 

[Cornbread]

I don’t agree with a lot of Buzz’s beliefs but he is at least consistent. A lot of people calling for the “tax the rich” are not volunteering to pay more themselves.

Amen

 

[buckbull]

Yelen says it's insolvent by 2034. So if you believe her it has 10 years left.

10 years left of 100% benefit. If nothing changes people will get 80% of their payout. The percentage will continue to drop as there will be more withdrawal on the system than inputs.

 

[KG92]

WTF are you talking about? I didn't attack your faith, or at least anything related to religious faith. If you don't like the program, don't take the money. You admitted you will cash the check. And when you are affected by a disaster you will ask the government for help. You don't like the government, but will take advantage of it every chance you get, while yelling about other people taking advantage of it. All this instead of opening yourself to the ideas of others or looking at the reasonableness of solutions to a problem. Like I said, fascinating creatures.

You mean cashing in on the fraction of money he paid in over his lifetime?

You’re really implying that a libertarian is an hypocrite for taking SS, when it’s literally their own money that they should have already had for their whole life in the first place?

Are all leftys immune to honest logic, or is that phenomenon unique to here? There are indeed some fascinating creatures in this thread.

 

[KG92]

Tax me more, I'm not going to cry about it like you are. While we're at it, start making corporations pay more as well. Wouldn't hurt to start taxing the churches you're so proud of either, that would be the Christian thing to do...oh, wait.

It takes money to run a country, a state, a county, and a city.

You need to find yourself an Island.

Pay as much taxes as your government-loving heart desires. I won’t stop you. I’ll bet they’ll even let you pay extra if you ask nicely.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Eliminate it all together.

Let me decide how to handle MY money.

I wish there was an option to opt out and not have to pay into it if you sighted a form saying you would not receive anything. I bet you 50 million people would opt out immediately.

 

[Treeshark]

I bet you 50 million people would opt out immediately.

I’m sure they would. What would we do with the tens of millions of impoverished elderly people this would create, though?

 

[Cornbread]

Take it away and see if you and your employer pay more or less than 1-10 dollars to the 30 million or so people that rely on it for their only retirement income.

Like I said we aren't going to put 30 million old folks on the streets and news flash, the church of the flying spaghetti monster isn't going to pick up the slack.

If we get in a debt crisis, it will be an interesting environment. They may print even more

You mean cashing in on the fraction of money he paid in over his lifetime?

You’re really implying that a libertarian is an hypocrite for taking SS, when it’s literally their own money that they should have already had for their whole life in the first place?

Are all leftys immune to honest logic, or is that phenomenon unique to here? There are indeed some fascinating creatures in this thread.

To set the record straight, and correct another misnomer, you get out 2-3 times what you and your employer contributed. That is for "the common man". The rich are getting soaked. Their social sec is 85% taxed, they don't get any benefit for incomes earned above the SS tax cap. They also pay that IMRA tax in Medicare above a certain gross income. SS & Medicare are middle class welfare programs, period.