BigHornRam
Well-known member
So if you put that 3 1/2 year old "ram" in the jig, how many "hunting" articles could Craig sell off this unlimited hunt?
Endangered Grizzly Bear Photo Thread
- Thread starter BigHornRam
- Start date
You’re gonna get me all fired up again about illegal rams getting plugged…I was just getting over it
I’ve talked to the biologist, the rams in question were all “legal” according to the biologist, however he did not plug the said ram and wouldn’t tell me who did
Labman
Well-known member
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- Jun 21, 2015
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- 614
The Ol’ Boddington lamb. He should be absolutely ashamed and embarrassed ever time he looks at that dink since he is a disciple of Jack O’Connor.
406dn
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- Dec 12, 2019
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As a fellow acolyte of Jack's...Jack would have walked thru hell, and back, before he shot a lamb like that.
Biologically speaking, I don't care what age of ram is harvested. Harvest from most sheep herds is managed to be so miniscule that it doesn't make a difference. But if MT has a regulation in place, they should enforce it. And in the case of Political Piss Fest units in MT, it is in the best interest of the future of the hunt to not allow younger rams to be harvested (so that the quotas are not filled quickly).
Obviously we all prefer that older rams are harvested. I don't think it matters biologically. In Colorado, many herd management plans are written to manage for an "average age of harvested ram." So if people are whacking 4 year old rams when there are plenty of 8 year old rams available, it can potentially influence future ram quotas. Otherwise, I wouldn't be too concerned about things like this CO ram being killed on a half-curl minimum regulation.
Obviously we all prefer that older rams are harvested. I don't think it matters biologically. In Colorado, many herd management plans are written to manage for an "average age of harvested ram." So if people are whacking 4 year old rams when there are plenty of 8 year old rams available, it can potentially influence future ram quotas. Otherwise, I wouldn't be too concerned about things like this CO ram being killed on a half-curl minimum regulation.
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rtraverdavis
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Biology aside, I just can't understand the mentality that would allow for someone to even want to kill a ram like that. No one goes on sheep hunts to feed their families...
Southern Elk
Well-known member
Might as well hunt a ewe tag, if you’re going to shoot one like those.
Labman
Well-known member
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- Jun 21, 2015
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- 614
Totally agree that harvesting those dinks probably isn’t an issue biologically and in CO with a limited number of permits probably isn’t a concern. My beef with the current system in MT’s unlimited units is that those dinks are potentially future great rams and once 2 get killed it’s over for everyone. So the dinks get wacked and the old rams get to die of old age? It makes no sense. Just because “we can” shoot dinks doesn’t mean we should. As has been stated, these aren’t whitetail does.
VOLhunter
Well-known member
I used to really like that guy and have several of his books. As a young lefty, he was my hunting icon. So damn sad! What a joke
Littlebrookie
New member
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- May 19, 2023
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You guys see that Boddington is the key note speaker at the Life breakfast this year. That dudes gotta feel uncomfortable presenting in a room full of passionate sheep nerds right? Will any comments be made from from the peanut gallery?
Do you think they’ll disqualify me from winning the Barbary sheep hunt with him if I wear my Baling Twine Outfitters shirt to the breakfast?
Baling Twine Outfitters
Slamming Dinks since 2021
In the event that I win, I have about 100 low key insults to sprinkle in during the hunt:
“Nah that one looks like it’s only 4 years old, it’d be a real shame to shoot one that young.”
[I glass up a lamb] “Where’s my gun?? Every lamb is a trophy, right?”
Baling Twine Outfitters
Slamming Dinks since 2021
In the event that I win, I have about 100 low key insults to sprinkle in during the hunt:
“Nah that one looks like it’s only 4 years old, it’d be a real shame to shoot one that young.”
[I glass up a lamb] “Where’s my gun?? Every lamb is a trophy, right?”
BradA
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2021
- Messages
- 1,157
I seen that and will be there at the breakfast to hopefully but doubtfully win a desert sheep hunt but I was not thrilled to see he was going to be the guest speaker.
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BradA
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- Jan 23, 2021
- Messages
- 1,157
I actually won’t put money on that raffle just because he is going to be a part of it.
6point5SAUM
Active member
I didn't see it posted, below is the department response to the UL proposal:
Department Response: The department appreciates the proposed amendment’s attempt to address sheep management and harvest concerns. However, the commission does not have the authority to direct the department to use a drawing versus an over-the-counter purchase option. See § 87-2-113, MCA. Instead, it is the department’s authority to determine when a drawing for any license opportunity is necessary. Additionally, the commission does not have authority to prohibit a member of the public from obtaining a license authorized by the legislature – as that authority rests with the legislature. In § 87-2-702(1), MCA, the law states that any person who kills a game animal (except elk, deer, or antelope), cannot acquire a special license during that same license year. Moreover, any successful sheep hunter must wait seven years before obtaining another sheep license – whether limited or unlimited. See § 87-2-702(4), MCA. Therefore, the department is concerned that given the legislature’s specificity on the issuance of special licenses, and time periods for ineligibility – the commission may not create a regulation restricting certain individuals from obtaining a sheep license. The commission does have authority to create a bonus point system. See § 87-2-117, MCA. Therefore, it is the commission’s purview to determine how the bonus point system for any species should be implemented. Given these different authorities, the commission has two options related to how bonus points are administered: 1) Drawing The first option is to require an applicant in the unlimited sheep draw to automatically use any accumulated bonus points in the drawing. Bonus points could be purchased at the time of application or between July 1st and September 30th. Applicants acquiring unlimited licenses through the drawing have their bonus points reduced to zero. Drawing applicants would not be eligible to purchase an unlimited sheep license over the counter, as this option would not be available. 2) Over the Counter / Point of Sale The second option is to offer unlimited bighorn sheep licenses to the public through an over-the counter/point of sale purchase. Individuals that purchased licenses over the counter would also have the ability to purchase a bonus point later in the year, so their bonus point balance would not change among years when an unlimited license was purchased over the counter. The commission could direct the department to have all individuals use any accumulated sheep bonus points upon purchase of the license. Purchasers of the over-the-counter license would not be eligible to apply for an unlimited sheep license via drawing during the same year. The two options available to the commission to allocate hunting opportunity within unlimited license quotas is entirely social in nature and would have no adverse effects on bighorn sheep populations within these hunting districts. Summary: The commission could direct the department to automatically use any bonus point when a person purchases an unlimited sheep license. However, § 87-2-117(6), MCA, already requires the department to delete an individual’s bonus points when the person “obtains the license.” Therefore, the commission could request the department to only use an over-the-counter/point of sale mechanism to simplify how bonus points are administered and removed. Requiring the department to forfeit a person’s bonus points when they simply apply for a license would violate § 87-2-117(6), MCA.
Department Response: The department appreciates the proposed amendment’s attempt to address sheep management and harvest concerns. However, the commission does not have the authority to direct the department to use a drawing versus an over-the-counter purchase option. See § 87-2-113, MCA. Instead, it is the department’s authority to determine when a drawing for any license opportunity is necessary. Additionally, the commission does not have authority to prohibit a member of the public from obtaining a license authorized by the legislature – as that authority rests with the legislature. In § 87-2-702(1), MCA, the law states that any person who kills a game animal (except elk, deer, or antelope), cannot acquire a special license during that same license year. Moreover, any successful sheep hunter must wait seven years before obtaining another sheep license – whether limited or unlimited. See § 87-2-702(4), MCA. Therefore, the department is concerned that given the legislature’s specificity on the issuance of special licenses, and time periods for ineligibility – the commission may not create a regulation restricting certain individuals from obtaining a sheep license. The commission does have authority to create a bonus point system. See § 87-2-117, MCA. Therefore, it is the commission’s purview to determine how the bonus point system for any species should be implemented. Given these different authorities, the commission has two options related to how bonus points are administered: 1) Drawing The first option is to require an applicant in the unlimited sheep draw to automatically use any accumulated bonus points in the drawing. Bonus points could be purchased at the time of application or between July 1st and September 30th. Applicants acquiring unlimited licenses through the drawing have their bonus points reduced to zero. Drawing applicants would not be eligible to purchase an unlimited sheep license over the counter, as this option would not be available. 2) Over the Counter / Point of Sale The second option is to offer unlimited bighorn sheep licenses to the public through an over-the counter/point of sale purchase. Individuals that purchased licenses over the counter would also have the ability to purchase a bonus point later in the year, so their bonus point balance would not change among years when an unlimited license was purchased over the counter. The commission could direct the department to have all individuals use any accumulated sheep bonus points upon purchase of the license. Purchasers of the over-the-counter license would not be eligible to apply for an unlimited sheep license via drawing during the same year. The two options available to the commission to allocate hunting opportunity within unlimited license quotas is entirely social in nature and would have no adverse effects on bighorn sheep populations within these hunting districts. Summary: The commission could direct the department to automatically use any bonus point when a person purchases an unlimited sheep license. However, § 87-2-117(6), MCA, already requires the department to delete an individual’s bonus points when the person “obtains the license.” Therefore, the commission could request the department to only use an over-the-counter/point of sale mechanism to simplify how bonus points are administered and removed. Requiring the department to forfeit a person’s bonus points when they simply apply for a license would violate § 87-2-117(6), MCA.
B_R_AK
Active member
- Joined
- May 1, 2023
- Messages
- 8
I thought I might share my ram with the group.
21 days and 186 miles spent in the unit this fall.
Connected on the ram solo in November.
I was on the ram the previous day, as he made his way down a steep ridge line and into the timber.
With the rifle set up on a tripod, I waited 6 hours for him to make a move, which he never did.
The next day I found that he had made his way up the next mountain without coming
in to view. At 10,000 ft. I caught up to him on a windswept slope. 194 yard shot frontal shot as he stood
to look at the movement as I crawled up to a low rise beneath him.
Was able to get him sealed within the time period and then made a trip back in for the second load.
Snow conditions were fairly difficult and I used Vert snowshoes nearly the entire time. These are non articulating climbing tools
that we use for climbing ski/snowboard lines.
6 1/2 years old with 15" bases.
The Dall was also a walk-in, solo hunt from this August in AK. (9 y/o, 40 1/2"x13 1/2, B&C Green 165)
21 days and 186 miles spent in the unit this fall.
Connected on the ram solo in November.
I was on the ram the previous day, as he made his way down a steep ridge line and into the timber.
With the rifle set up on a tripod, I waited 6 hours for him to make a move, which he never did.
The next day I found that he had made his way up the next mountain without coming
in to view. At 10,000 ft. I caught up to him on a windswept slope. 194 yard shot frontal shot as he stood
to look at the movement as I crawled up to a low rise beneath him.
Was able to get him sealed within the time period and then made a trip back in for the second load.
Snow conditions were fairly difficult and I used Vert snowshoes nearly the entire time. These are non articulating climbing tools
that we use for climbing ski/snowboard lines.
6 1/2 years old with 15" bases.
The Dall was also a walk-in, solo hunt from this August in AK. (9 y/o, 40 1/2"x13 1/2, B&C Green 165)
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ndlawrence
New member
- Joined
- May 12, 2023
- Messages
- 12
Absolutely amazing wherewithal to make 186 miles happen. Glad to see someone put in the effort met with reward. I hope to make it one day.
geetar
Well-known member
Congrats on both rams. What a year you had!
