End of Grizzly Delisting?

[Deleted member 56225]

I think the "magic" of any good author is to invoke thought that takes any 25 readers 25 different directions. Why I like reading Abbey.

Even his use of the word "institutions"...is up to the reader to interpret for themselves, mine is much different than yours.

I dont know if it is interpretion. I was refering to the man and the writer. He hated immigration for environmental reasons. He got into a fist fight with one of the orginal Earth First folks over that issue. I do respect your response and not being negative. I used loving to reading Abbey. He could take two pages to describe a flower that only blooms in a full moon in the Utah Souteastern desert in April. And one of his best essays is about Telluride before it became what it is today. I have a copy from spring 1989 Moab's paper the day he died and he is on the cover. As for grizzly's, everyone should read Grizzly Years by Doug Peacock whether you hunt one or just want to see one. I know he was a drunk, he died from a liver failure at 62. I always felt bad reading all his rafting trips through the rivers where grizzlys roam and that poor guy never got to see a grizzly bear. Here is to Rudolf the Red!

 

[Dakotakid]

What is the annual budget of the IGBST?

 

[nrpate05]

Rep. Hageman (R-WY) introduced legislation to Congressionally delist grizzly bears. It passed out of the House Natural Resource committee yesterday. Very little chance of getting the votes in the Senate, but interesting nonetheless.
https://thevenatic.beehiiv.com/p/gr...=newsletter&utm_source=thevenatic.beehiiv.com
https://thevenatic.beehiiv.com/p/gr...=newsletter&utm_source=thevenatic.beehiiv.com

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

What is the annual budget of the IGBST?

Yeah so I wanted to know that too when I read through this thread. Looks like there’s no one source, rather Fed, State, Provincial. Board is an A-team assembly if there ever was one. Regional Foresters, Regional Directors (FWS, NPS), State Directors (State wildlife agencies, BLM), Provincial Directors (Alberta and B.C. Wildlife) and the USGS Rocky Mountain Director.
Here’s something else I found: https://igbconline.org/grizzly-bear-study-team/
Randy’s been involved here 27 years. These annual reports predate Randy’s entrance by 11 years. Long since deceased people were involved in this project who never got to see how steadfast this confederation of agencies stuck together for 38 years.

DOGE doesn’t care to recognize this effort and would rather take away all taxpayer-funded things that benefit the taxpayers. The Federal contribution to IGBC is significant though spread out across agency budgets and I’d wager it may be less than six figures from some of those Federal agencies. DOGE put agency funding decisions to children conceived while Dubya was still in office. Tell you what, if I volunteered 27 years for a worthy cause and it was then jeopardized by group of ignorant young men for the cost of a FEMA trailer… I’d be sucker punching every 19 year old boy I saw. Mortgage loan officer assistant- BAP! Mormons at the door- Slap! Grocery store assistant manager- Whap!

 

[44hunter45]

I'm not sure this is a nail in the coffin for delisting. Listing costs money, lots of it. This administration has already shown a willingness to play with the ESA listings and other protections such as Migratory Bird Treaty Act. All in the name of impacts to ag and industry from over-regulation.

While it is doubtful the GOP can get enough Senate votes for cloture, I have no doubt the Idaho delegation will be onboard. Rep Simpson was instrumental in the bill to de-list wolves. He has stated support for de-listing grizzlies.

 

[Big Fin]

One thing people need to understand is the difference in how the ESA is applied to grizzlies and the Northern Rocky wolf population. Wolves were governed under Section 10(j) of the ESA, which allows for "experimental and non-essential" translocation of species to areas where they have been extirpated. That is what we negotiated, as best we could, for the reintroduction of wolves that happened in the Northern Rockies. Section 10(j) gives a lot more latitude to management, removal, and delisting.

Section 10(j) does not apply to grizzlies, as they were never extirpated from the Greater Yellowstone or the Northern Rockies areas they now inhabit. The issue with grizzlies is full blown ESA, not a small subchapter of the Act that was used for reintroduction of wolves.

Whether or not Congress can "congressionally delist" a species under the full ESA is yet to be seen. We knew it could be done under 10(j), with a reintroduced population, as we saw with wolves. The history of grizzlies, their listing under ESA, and the fact that these are native populations makes for a lot different discussion than with reintroduced wolves.

I guess time will tell how the courts will look at it. I say courts, as even with Congressional action, it will be litigated. And without monitoring as is conducted by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team, I am not sure how a Congressional delisting would stand without changing the monitoring provisions required under the ESA.

 

[44hunter45]

One thing people need to understand is the difference in how the ESA is applied to grizzlies and the Northern Rocky wolf population. Wolves were governed under Section 10(j) of the ESA, which allows for "experimental and non-essential" translocation of species to ares where they have been extirpated. That is what we negotiated, as best we could, for the reintroduction of wolves that happened in the Northern Rockies. Section 10(j) gives a lot more latitude to management, removal, and delisting.

Section 10(j) does not apply to grizzlies, as they were never extirpated from the Greater Yellowstone or the Northern Rockies areas they now inhabit. The issue with grizzlies is full blown ESA, not a small subchapter of the Act that was used for reintroduction of wolves.

Whether or not Congress can "congressionally delist" a species under the full ESA is yet to be seen. We knew it could be done under 10(j), with a reintroduced population, as we saw with wolves. The history of grizzlies, their listing under ESA, and the fact that these are native populations makes for a lot different discussion than with reintroduced wolves.

I guess time will tell how the courts will look at it. I say courts, as even with Congressional action, it will be litigated. And without monitoring as is conducted by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team, I am not sure how a Congressional delisting would stand without changing the monitoring provisions required under the ESA.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ballistic]

So, for nearly 30 years government officials have been meeting quarterly to reach a consensus and somehow you blame DOGE? You've been too long in the belly of the beast Randy, too long..

 

[Big Fin]

So, for nearly 30 years government officials have been meeting quarterly to reach a consensus and somehow you blame DOGE? You've been too long in the belly of the beast Randy, too long..

Yeah, I blame DOGE for the IGBST being terminated. It is written in black and white as to the cuts that will be made. That's a reality for all of us to read, not my supposition or extrapolation. And there will be consequences to that decision.

I've been engaged in this issue for over 25 years. I want to see grizzlies delisted under a very complicated law - the Endangered Species Act. I know the role the IGBST plays in the delisting process of the courts eventually allowing delisting. We can't demand delisting while also eliminating the very mechanisms that will allow us to meet the legal requirements for delisting.

The idea that DOGE magically solves complicated problems is laughable to those who know who things work. In a case like this, where there will be no improvement in government efficiency, it should be called DOGI. In this instance, it will cost us a lot more than it saves, but it makes for good fodder to those who are either misinformed or uninformed.

Carry on........

 

[El Jason]

So, for nearly 30 years government officials have been meeting quarterly to reach a consensus and somehow you blame DOGE? You've been too long in the belly of the beast Randy, too long..

Tell me you don’t understand without telling me you don’t understand.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Yeah, I blame DOGE for the IGBST being terminated. It is written in black and white as to the cuts that will be made. That's a reality for all of us to read, not my supposition or extrapolation. And there will be consequences to that decision.

I've been engaged in this issue for over 25 years. I want to see grizzlies delisted under a very complicated law - the Endangered Species Act. I know the role the IGBST plays in the delisting process of the courts eventually allowing delisting. We can't demand delisting while also eliminating the very mechanisms that will allow us to meet the legal requirements for delisting.

The idea that DOGE magically solves complicated problems is laughable to those who know who things work. In a case like this, where there will be no improvement in government efficiency, it should be called DOGI. In this instance, it will cost us a lot more than it saves, but it makes for good fodder to those who are either misinformed or uninformed.

Carry on........

You had me at DOGI

 

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