Elk Coughed, Not Much Blood

[Westxhunter]

Thanks for the update. I wish all hunters had as much integrity as you. I'll leave you with one thing my father in law told me......You're going to think about that shot everyday until next year. Good luck next hunt and shake it off if you can. You're better for it and the coyotes, foxes, birds, etc will all eat good the next couple weeks.

 

[BuzzH]

If you're going to hunt elk with a bow...get used to it.

 

[lastlight]

Bow hunting sucks!

Thank you for punching your tag, takes a better man than most to do that. I wish you could have got some help and kept gridding the area. Valuable lesson at least!

 

[roravetz]

I certainly understand why someone might punch their tag in this situation but if you feel like you made an ethical shot, feel like you truely did everything you could to try to find the elk and never found it, is it frowned upon to continue to try to hunt and fill your freezer? I'm not saying you should let arrows fly at every bull and hope for the best, but would continuing to hunt and hoping you can find a cow at 30 yards and get some meat mean that you lacked a certain level of integrity?

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything and have been in the same situation with a mule deer last year and chose to punch my tag. I already had some meat in the freezer but if I had an empty freezer it would be really hard for me not to continue to hunt and get some meat for the year.

Also on a side note I called New Mexico Game and Fish and explained what happened and asked how they felt I should fill out my harvest report and they said to say I didn't harvest anything. I thought that was kind of interesting, I wish there was the option to say shot one but did not recover it or something like that.

 

[Addicting]

I certainly understand why someone might punch their tag in this situation but if you feel like you made an ethical shot, feel like you truely did everything you could to try to find the elk and never found it, is it frowned upon to continue to try to hunt and fill your freezer? I'm not saying you should let arrows fly at every bull and hope for the best, but would continuing to hunt and hoping you can find a cow at 30 yards and get some meat mean that you lacked a certain level of integrity?

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything and have been in the same situation with a mule deer last year and chose to punch my tag. I already had some meat in the freezer but if I had an empty freezer it would be really hard for me not to continue to hunt and get some meat for the year.

Also on a side note I called New Mexico Game and Fish and explained what happened and asked how they felt I should fill out my harvest report and they said to say I didn't harvest anything. I thought that was kind of interesting, I wish there was the option to say shot one but did not recover it or something like that.

There are a lot of folks on here that will punch it and go home. There are also a lot on here that will continue to hunt. Every situation is different and everyone’s has their own ethics. I wouldn’t fault anyone who continued to hunt if they did everything they could to try and retrieve the animal.

 

[WyoDoug]

There are a lot of folks on here that will punch it and go home. There are also a lot on here that will continue to hunt. Every situation is different and everyone’s has their own ethics. I wouldn’t fault anyone who continued to hunt if they did everything they could to try and retrieve the animal.

I would not either. Wyoming law only requires you to make reasonable effort to harvest an animal you wound or kill. I can't find anything in the law that says your hunting is done once you have wounded or killed an animal but unable to retrieve it (other than an report of a kill to WGF). I would consider my license null and void if I did that. But I will not condemn anyone else who would continue to hunt.

 

[bts09]

Thanks for following up with us all. Sorry it ended this way for you, but count me as on the side of those who think you made a very hard, but supremely ethical choice to punch the tag and call it quits. Is it unethical to keep hunting in that situation? My take: I don’t care. I know punching a tag when you think you’ve mortally wounded an animal is ethical, and is hard. So I’m not going to second-guess that decision or cheapen it (because let’s be honest—it’s freaking hard to give up a bull elk tag) by asking whether you ”have“ to do it. You did the unambiguously right thing.

 

[Sasquatchewan]

Sorry to hear my dude! I know exactly how you feel, I lost a beautiful blonde black bear this spring. Liver hit and he ran to the river only to disappear...

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Hey guys thanks for the advice and support, I really appreciate it. This has been a tough thing for me to deal with and I’m going to be upset at myself for the mistakes I made as long am in the game. I went back before sunrise this morning and researched the draw. I never found him or blood other than where he stood and coughed. I could make out his tracks running to the bottom of the draw, but then his gate slowed and his tracks looked just like all the other bull tracks in the drainage, to my eyes anyway. I did bump into his herd of cows again today. When they ran off, I followed their tracks a while but never saw a bull track running in the mix. It only got down to 44 last night and was up to 70 by 9am. He also ran onto a south facing slope from where I shot him.

I’ve had all day to reanalyze what happened on the drive home. The plywood sound definitely indicates that I made contact with the scapula; and I couldn’t even see the back of his rib cage through the shooting lane I had so I don’t think I hit the liver. I can’t imagine how he coughed up blood without me punching into the near side lung.

I’m pulling 70lbs and went with 300 spine 5mm FMJ’s, a 50gr insert, and 125gr QAD fixed blade heads (the blade over shaft version). Total arrow weight is a shade under 550gr. It’s not a long range setup and I didn’t need it to be; but after researching how common it is to hit the shoulder blade I wanted the kenteic energy to have a chance at getting through the thinner parts of the scapula on a broadside elk if I missed my mark. I think that’s exactly what happened, but I failed to anticipate the arrow getting stuck in the shoulder and clogging external blood loss. I might have to rethink this approach.

A coworker of mine who I would describe as a bow hunting fanatic said this exact thing happened to him on a bull and he watched it take 6 hours to die. He didn’t want to risk bumping it to try to get another arrow in him because the blood trail was so faint. I think the bull I bumped yesterday was probably the herd bull I shot, and 90 minutes just wasn’t long enough for him to expire. He must have been bleeding internally for no blood to have been in the bed.

I can’t tell you what my bubble level looked like, or if I thought about my anchor point. I usually run a side-stabilizer to offset the quiver weight but lost it running around the wilderness for 8 days before this encounter. I practiced 3 days/week at the range but shooting stationary foam blocks at known ranges just didn’t prepare me to deal with the adrenaline rush of a bull finally coming in on my calls. He’s a moving target in heavy cover, I have a reed in my mouth, a bugle tube squeezed between my knees, a backpack and bino-harness on, and I had to crouch down to get his vitals in my narrow lane when he finally stops to take a look at me. It’s quite a challenging thing for someone who grew up hunting whitetails from heated tree stands in MN.

Anyway, I think it’s more likely then not he was mortally wounded so I punched my tag. It just felt like the right thing for me to do. I’ll be back out there a little smarter and more prepared next year.

@IK-NWhunter ,,,,I've experienced this more than a few times over the last 40+ years of archery hunting,,,,,, it is never easy when an animal is hit and not recovered! That sick feeling will stay with you for a good long while. There will be times when everything seems to go as scripted and the outcome is not what's expected.

The "Plywood" sound was definitely a shoulder bone hit, from experience here. The cough indicated that the arrow penetrated into the chest cavity and the bull is now dead, no sugar coating it. Once the bull was bump out of his bed, well, they can travel a long ways on one lung. With that, a mortally wounded bull will usually pick the easiest route available after being jumped from it's bed. Knowing that, a hunter can eliminate a portion of the surrounding terrain and adjust the search area accordingly. Here is where experience plays a huge part in the recovering of the animal. As you stated, a hunter can be proficient with the bow but experience dictates the reaction and outcome once "THE MOMENT" arrives.

You are correct about the arrow plugging the hole and not providing a good blood trail. I think that it is a combination of the dense shoulder muscles, the bone itself and the arrow that greatly reduces the blood to exit and fall to the ground. I have never had a bull go over a few hundred yards if the arrow makes it into the chest cavity. They will usually bed once they realize that they are in trouble but the chest cavity will have to fill up before they expire. It may take some time for the chest cavity to fill before the bull starts to cough up blood while bedded. Also, the bull will usually bed down on his good shoulder,,,leaving the arrow side high and dry. The blood that does seep out of the wound will be soaked up by the surrounding hair and may not make it onto the ground. Once the chest cavity fills, there will be blood coughed up...and usually a lot of it.

I have lost one bull that was hit in the shoulder and it played out very similar to yours. The sickly feeling sucks bad but at least I learned not to rush things,,,,,extra time is needed.

Searching through my photos, here are a few examples:


The above bull was hard quartered to at about 10yds. Hugged the shoulder a bit to close and heard the "plywood" crack when the arrow hit. The arrow chipped off of the should bone and berried to the fletching. The bull whirled at the shot and ran 30-40yds, stood for a moment and then walked off down hill. There were only a few small drops of blood in the snow where the bull stopped and no blood could be seen from that position along his tracks. I backed off, built a fire, and waited about four hours before returning to the bulls tracks. With the snow, tracking the bull was very easy, but, in the first 150yds I only viewed two dime sized blood spots. The bull walked straight down hill until he hit a bench. He then turned and followed the bench 50-60yds before he bedded. At that spot, the bull had three separate beds. The first bed had one little pink spot of blood in the snow. 10yds away, the second bed had quite a bit of blood. Once the chest cavity filled up is when the bull started to cough up blood. The bull didn't actually bed the third time but tipped over and died about 20yds from the second bed. The bull bedded 200-250yds from where he was hit. Almost five hours later he was still warm and hadn't started to stiffen up yet. With that, he had expired not long before I found him. Without the snow, and with almost zero blood, this bull would have been hard to find. With that said, I knew that a wounded bull would find the easiest route and the below bench would have been the place to look for him. This bull would of been lost if pushed out of his bed and ran down hill below the snow line. Note that I placed a green circle around the arrow hole that the arrow was pulled from.


This bull, 10-12yd shot, standing broadside. The shot was very steep down hill, think tree stand, "plywood" crack at the hit. Bull lunges 5yds and then just stands there, sound familiar? Movement of trying to load another arrow causes the bull to bolt straight down hill into a downfall maze. I could hear the bull's progression through the downfall and knew that he had angled up canyon. I found the back third of the arrow between the hit location and where he stopped as it was snapped off when he brushed a tree. Again, only a few small drops of blood was found where the bull had stopped. Backed off and waited hours then returned to try and track the bull. The steep downfall slope only gave up several slight smears of blood where the bull had jumped over high fallen logs. That lasted approx 70-80yds and then dumped out on a bench above a line of cliffs. At that point, I found one spec of blood on a light colored rock. A hundred or so yards up the bench and I found the bull. This arrow went straight through the blade and through the off side lung. As the picture shows, there was very little blood coming out of the arrow hole making tracking damn tough. This picture does show the large pool of blood that the bull coughed up once the chest cavity filled up. This bull had started to cool down and stiffen up when found. So he didn't last as long as the above bull in the snow....but....and again, the bull would have been damn near impossible to find if jumped out of his bed. Time and patience is always an archers friend, try not to push the situation.

It really sucks to loose any animal and I commend you for notching your tag. With that, I once shot a bull in Oregon that had two different style broadheads along with two different calibers of rifle slugs encapsulated throughout his body and he was 100% fine,,,,so not all hits are fatal!

I sure hope that this helps at least one hunter in the next few weeks. Good Luck to all and shoot straight!

 

[roravetz]

@IK-NWhunter ,,,,I've experienced this more than a few times over the last 40+ years of archery hunting,,,,,, it is never easy when an animal is hit and not recovered! That sick feeling will stay with you for a good long while. There will be times when everything seems to go as scripted and the outcome is not what's expected.

The "Plywood" sound was definitely a shoulder bone hit, from experience here. The cough indicated that the arrow penetrated into the chest cavity and the bull is now dead, no sugar coating it. Once the bull was bump out of his bed, well, they can travel a long ways on one lung. With that, a mortally wounded bull will usually pick the easiest route available after being jumped from it's bed. Knowing that, a hunter can eliminate a portion of the surrounding terrain and adjust the search area accordingly. Here is where experience plays a huge part in the recovering of the animal. As you stated, a hunter can be proficient with the bow but experience dictates the reaction and outcome once "THE MOMENT" arrives.

You are correct about the arrow plugging the hole and not providing a good blood trail. I think that it is a combination of the dense shoulder muscles, the bone itself and the arrow that greatly reduces the blood to exit and fall to the ground. I have never had a bull go over a few hundred yards if the arrow makes it into the chest cavity. They will usually bed once they realize that they are in trouble but the chest cavity will have to fill up before they expire. It may take some time for the chest cavity to fill before the bull starts to cough up blood while bedded. Also, the bull will usually bed down on his good shoulder,,,leaving the arrow side high and dry. The blood that does seep out of the wound will be soaked up by the surrounding hair and may not make it onto the ground. Once the chest cavity fills, there will be blood coughed up...and usually a lot of it.

I have lost one bull that was hit in the shoulder and it played out very similar to yours. The sickly feeling sucks bad but at least I learned not to rush things,,,,,extra time is needed.

Searching through my photos, here are a few examples:

View attachment 153774
The above bull was hard quartered to at about 10yds. Hugged the shoulder a bit to close and heard the "plywood" crack when the arrow hit. The arrow chipped off of the should bone and berried to the fletching. The bull whirled at the shot and ran 30-40yds, stood for a moment and then walked off down hill. There were only a few small drops of blood in the snow where the bull stopped and no blood could be seen from that position along his tracks. I backed off, built a fire, and waited about four hours before returning to the bulls tracks. With the snow, tracking the bull was very easy, but, in the first 150yds I only viewed two dime sized blood spots. The bull walked straight down hill until he hit a bench. He then turned and followed the bench 50-60yds before he bedded. At that spot, the bull had three separate beds. The first bed had one little pink spot of blood in the snow. 10yds away, the second bed had quite a bit of blood. Once the chest cavity filled up is when the bull started to cough up blood. The bull didn't actually bed the third time but tipped over and died about 20yds from the second bed. The bull bedded 200-250yds from where he was hit. Almost five hours later he was still warm and hadn't started to stiffen up yet. With that, he had expired not long before I found him. Without the snow, and with almost zero blood, this bull would have been hard to find. With that said, I knew that a wounded bull would find the easiest route and the below bench would have been the place to look for him. This bull would of been lost if pushed out of his bed and ran down hill below the snow line. Note that I placed a green circle around the arrow hole that the arrow was pulled from.

View attachment 153775
This bull, 10-12yd shot, standing broadside. The shot was very steep down hill, think tree stand, "plywood" crack at the hit. Bull lunges 5yds and then just stands there, sound familiar? Movement of trying to load another arrow causes the bull to bolt straight down hill into a downfall maze. I could hear the bull's progression through the downfall and knew that he had angled up canyon. I found the back third of the arrow between the hit location and where he stopped as it was snapped off when he brushed a tree. Again, only a few small drops of blood was found where the bull had stopped. Backed off and waited hours then returned to try and track the bull. The steep downfall slope only gave up several slight smears of blood where the bull had jumped over high fallen logs. That lasted approx 70-80yds and then dumped out on a bench above a line of cliffs. At that point, I found one spec of blood on a light colored rock. A hundred or so yards up the bench and I found the bull. This arrow went straight through the blade and through the off side lung. As the picture shows, there was very little blood coming out of the arrow hole making tracking damn tough. This picture does show the large pool of blood that the bull coughed up once the chest cavity filled up. This bull had started to cool down and stiffen up when found. So he didn't last as long as the above bull in the snow....but....and again, the bull would have been damn near impossible to find if jumped out of his bed. Time and patience is always an archers friend, try not to push the situation.

It really sucks to loose any animal and I commend you for notching your tag. With that, I once shot a bull in Oregon that had two different style broadheads along with two different calibers of rifle slugs encapsulated throughout his body and he was 100% fine,,,,so not all hits are fatal!

I sure hope that this helps at least one hunter in the next few weeks. Good Luck to all and shoot straight!

Really appreciate that write up! Is it possible that the arrow has enough force to partially knock the wind out of them causing them to cough without penetrating the lung ? I'm not trying to second guess your experience but was more curious if thats even possible.

 

[dgc1963]

punching his Tag without recovering but mortal wound THATs a true sportsman I tip my hat
First class act !!

 

[IK-NWhunter]

@IK-NWhunter ,,,,I've experienced this more than a few times over the last 40+ years of archery hunting,,,,,, it is never easy when an animal is hit and not recovered! That sick feeling will stay with you for a good long while. There will be times when everything seems to go as scripted and the outcome is not what's expected.

The "Plywood" sound was definitely a shoulder bone hit, from experience here. The cough indicated that the arrow penetrated into the chest cavity and the bull is now dead, no sugar coating it. Once the bull was bump out of his bed, well, they can travel a long ways on one lung. With that, a mortally wounded bull will usually pick the easiest route available after being jumped from it's bed. Knowing that, a hunter can eliminate a portion of the surrounding terrain and adjust the search area accordingly. Here is where experience plays a huge part in the recovering of the animal. As you stated, a hunter can be proficient with the bow but experience dictates the reaction and outcome once "THE MOMENT" arrives.

You are correct about the arrow plugging the hole and not providing a good blood trail. I think that it is a combination of the dense shoulder muscles, the bone itself and the arrow that greatly reduces the blood to exit and fall to the ground. I have never had a bull go over a few hundred yards if the arrow makes it into the chest cavity. They will usually bed once they realize that they are in trouble but the chest cavity will have to fill up before they expire. It may take some time for the chest cavity to fill before the bull starts to cough up blood while bedded. Also, the bull will usually bed down on his good shoulder,,,leaving the arrow side high and dry. The blood that does seep out of the wound will be soaked up by the surrounding hair and may not make it onto the ground. Once the chest cavity fills, there will be blood coughed up...and usually a lot of it.

I have lost one bull that was hit in the shoulder and it played out very similar to yours. The sickly feeling sucks bad but at least I learned not to rush things,,,,,extra time is needed.

Searching through my photos, here are a few examples:

View attachment 153774
The above bull was hard quartered to at about 10yds. Hugged the shoulder a bit to close and heard the "plywood" crack when the arrow hit. The arrow chipped off of the should bone and berried to the fletching. The bull whirled at the shot and ran 30-40yds, stood for a moment and then walked off down hill. There were only a few small drops of blood in the snow where the bull stopped and no blood could be seen from that position along his tracks. I backed off, built a fire, and waited about four hours before returning to the bulls tracks. With the snow, tracking the bull was very easy, but, in the first 150yds I only viewed two dime sized blood spots. The bull walked straight down hill until he hit a bench. He then turned and followed the bench 50-60yds before he bedded. At that spot, the bull had three separate beds. The first bed had one little pink spot of blood in the snow. 10yds away, the second bed had quite a bit of blood. Once the chest cavity filled up is when the bull started to cough up blood. The bull didn't actually bed the third time but tipped over and died about 20yds from the second bed. The bull bedded 200-250yds from where he was hit. Almost five hours later he was still warm and hadn't started to stiffen up yet. With that, he had expired not long before I found him. Without the snow, and with almost zero blood, this bull would have been hard to find. With that said, I knew that a wounded bull would find the easiest route and the below bench would have been the place to look for him. This bull would of been lost if pushed out of his bed and ran down hill below the snow line. Note that I placed a green circle around the arrow hole that the arrow was pulled from.

View attachment 153775
This bull, 10-12yd shot, standing broadside. The shot was very steep down hill, think tree stand, "plywood" crack at the hit. Bull lunges 5yds and then just stands there, sound familiar? Movement of trying to load another arrow causes the bull to bolt straight down hill into a downfall maze. I could hear the bull's progression through the downfall and knew that he had angled up canyon. I found the back third of the arrow between the hit location and where he stopped as it was snapped off when he brushed a tree. Again, only a few small drops of blood was found where the bull had stopped. Backed off and waited hours then returned to try and track the bull. The steep downfall slope only gave up several slight smears of blood where the bull had jumped over high fallen logs. That lasted approx 70-80yds and then dumped out on a bench above a line of cliffs. At that point, I found one spec of blood on a light colored rock. A hundred or so yards up the bench and I found the bull. This arrow went straight through the blade and through the off side lung. As the picture shows, there was very little blood coming out of the arrow hole making tracking damn tough. This picture does show the large pool of blood that the bull coughed up once the chest cavity filled up. This bull had started to cool down and stiffen up when found. So he didn't last as long as the above bull in the snow....but....and again, the bull would have been damn near impossible to find if jumped out of his bed. Time and patience is always an archers friend, try not to push the situation.

It really sucks to loose any animal and I commend you for notching your tag. With that, I once shot a bull in Oregon that had two different style broadheads along with two different calibers of rifle slugs encapsulated throughout his body and he was 100% fine,,,,so not all hits are fatal!

I sure hope that this helps at least one hunter in the next few weeks. Good Luck to all and shoot straight!

Wow, thanks for the detailed write up! Had I known what happened immediately after the shot I would have just backed out and come back with my llamas at sunset or first light the next day. I’m sure he would have been dead in that first bed...

I will do everything I can in the future to get that arrow in a better spot, but should this happen again at least I’ll know to wait a half day.

 

[IK-NWhunter]

Really appreciate that write up! Is it possible that the arrow has enough force to partially knock the wind out of them causing them to cough without penetrating the lung ? I'm not trying to second guess your experience but was more curious if thats even possible.

I don’t really know if it’s possible to knock the wind out of an elk with an arrow. The blood I found was spattered on blueberry leaves right in front of where he was standing when he coughed. No bubbles in it, but I can’t see how he would have coughed up blood if my broadhead didn’t damage a lung.

 

[JT88]

I feel for you man. One thing I'd do if you can - go back in a couple weeks and see if you can locate him by the smell. Hate to say it, but without a hound or something, it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I've found a lot of predator kills from the smell of decay when I'm out there shed hunting or just poking around in the woods. And if you're confident he was hit hard, it's a chance for some closure if you do happen to find him... Just my .02.