Eastman's article on selling GPS coordinates

[Steelhead]

Selling GPS coordinates is a bit much but>>>>>>
Did Eastman's just send me an email with the title of "Sell your Soul for a Buck"?
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Irony calling...Line 1

 

[Joe Hulburt]

Catchy title. LOL

Pretty ridiculous that the law would not apply to guides and outfitters if enacted. Apparently disregarding fair chase is OK as long as your a "pro".

 

[mdunc8]

I'm not seeing how this has anything to do with fair chase

 

[grizzly_]

Pretty ironic when they say, "We thought by our vote that it was an unfair advantage given to some hunters and not others..." considering the NR Wilderness rule in Wyoming.

Utah may protect the rich, but Wyoming protects the outfitters like no other state.

 

[LWC55]

Pretty ironic when they say, "We thought by our vote that it was an unfair advantage given to some hunters and not others..." considering the NR Wilderness rule in Wyoming.

Utah may protect the rich, but Wyoming protects the outfitters like no other state.

New Mexico might have something to say about that.

 

[SFC B]

Every time I see a Governor's tag go for HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars I have Denny Austad flashbacks. At least to me, he is the greatest example of what this is aimed at (although I can't see it being effective at all). I had no idea how pervasive this stuff was among the ultra-rich "hunters" until I heard the description of the army had employed up to the harvesting of the Spider Bull. I find it not only unethical but but just plain offensive that someone can basically buy his way into the record book, especially while utilizing public land.

 

[WapitiBob]

I see no correlation between Austed and this Bill. Denny hired Doyle Moss and hired additional guides per Moss' available options. This Bill is about Bounty Hunting; Moss did not pay a bounty on the spider bull, finding it on their own from all the "reputable" reports I have seen.
Posse Hunting is a different can of worms.


Pretty sad we have these phrases to describe hunting tactics..

 

[Joe Hulburt]

I'm not seeing how this has anything to do with fair chase

I guess it depends on why you hunt and what you are proud of.

 

[SFC B]

I see no correlation between Austed and this Bill. Denny hired Doyle Moss and hired additional guides per Moss' available options. This Bill is about Bounty Hunting; Moss did not pay a bounty on the spider bull, finding it on their own from all the "reputable" reports I have seen.
Posse Hunting is a different can of worms.


Pretty sad we have these phrases to describe hunting tactics..

He hired Moss and his Posse to find and monitor the bull all summer prior to his hunt. They had the bull pinpointed twice for him (the first opportunity he missed) and he harvested the bull approximately 12 miles away from where it originally had been ranging. This is straight from the B&C investigation. If you don't find continual, long term surveillance of a specific animal (especially on public land) over MONTHS by a well paid third party to ensure harvest of a specific animal to be unethical and the exact kind of "pay for a specific animal" situation they are talking about I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I find this to be VERY close to a canned hunt in my view.

 

[Gr8bawana]

He hired Moss and his Posse to find and monitor the bull all summer prior to his hunt. They had the bull pinpointed twice for him (the first opportunity he missed) and he harvested the bull approximately 12 miles away from where it originally had been ranging. This is straight from the B&C investigation. If you don't find continual, long term surveillance of a specific animal (especially on public land) over MONTHS by a well paid third party to ensure harvest of a specific animal to be unethical and the exact kind of "pay for a specific animal" situation they are talking about I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I find this to be VERY close to a canned hunt in my view.

My sentiments as well.

 

[Nameless Range]

He hired Moss and his Posse to find and monitor the bull all summer prior to his hunt. They had the bull pinpointed twice for him (the first opportunity he missed) and he harvested the bull approximately 12 miles away from where it originally had been ranging. This is straight from the B&C investigation. If you don't find continual, long term surveillance of a specific animal (especially on public land) over MONTHS by a well paid third party to ensure harvest of a specific animal to be unethical and the exact kind of "pay for a specific animal" situation they are talking about I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I find this to be VERY close to a canned hunt in my view.

Agreed

 

[grandejuan]

Me too. ^^^^^
GJ

 

[mdunc8]

I guess it depends on why you hunt and what you are proud of.

No it doesn't. As far as fair chase is concerned, this is no different than your buddy telling you where he saw a buck last weekend or Randy taking a bunch of friends without tags to sit behind the glass and help him find a few bucks for himself, his son, or Spitz. I don't know the details about what folks are selling, but Randy's situation probably does more to ensure someone, who didn't find the animal, harvests said animal. I've happily sat behind a spotting scope to help a buddy when I didn't have a tag and I've had friends accompany me. However, I would never pay a random stranger for the same information. Regardless, an animal is getting chased by someone who didn't initially locate the animal. That's it. The only difference is that money is being exchanged. And if that's the problem you have with the situation, then I would expect you would have the same problem with guided hunting. The only difference in that situation is that the guide is helping the client relocate the animal that the guide likely saw earlier in the summer or fall. The only issue I see at play is that it's unregulated. I don't have a problem regulating or eliminating the practice all together but call it was it is.

 

[MooseCaboose]

http://blog.eastmans.com/sell-soul-buck/

Here's the article.

 

[Joe Hulburt]

No it doesn't. As far as fair chase is concerned, this is no different than your buddy telling you where he saw a buck last weekend or Randy taking a bunch of friends without tags to sit behind the glass and help him find a few bucks for himself, his son, or Spitz. I don't know the details about what folks are selling, but Randy's situation probably does more to ensure someone, who didn't find the animal, harvests said animal. I've happily sat behind a spotting scope to help a buddy when I didn't have a tag and I've had friends accompany me. However, I would never pay a random stranger for the same information. Regardless, an animal is getting chased by someone who didn't initially locate the animal. That's it. The only difference is that money is being exchanged. And if that's the problem you have with the situation, then I would expect you would have the same problem with guided hunting. The only difference in that situation is that the guide is helping the client relocate the animal that the guide likely saw earlier in the summer or fall. The only issue I see at play is that it's unregulated. I don't have a problem regulating or eliminating the practice all together but call it was it is.

This stuff is the issue.....

"He hired Moss and his Posse to find and monitor the bull all summer prior to his hunt. They had the bull pinpointed twice for him (the first opportunity he missed) and he harvested the bull approximately 12 miles away from where it originally had been ranging. This is straight from the B&C investigation. If you don't find continual, long term surveillance of a specific animal (especially on public land) over MONTHS by a well paid third party to ensure harvest of a specific animal to be unethical and the exact kind of "pay for a specific animal" situation they are talking about I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I find this to be VERY close to a canned hunt in my view."

In my opinion that isn't what I would consider fair chase hunting. The problem with this stupid proposed law is that it would still be legal for this nonsense to take place which was my point. Telling your buddy where you saw a buck last weekend has nothing to do with this story but you are entitled to your take on it at any rate.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

So you don't think it's fair chase too scout for a hunt? That's all Moss did was Scout for the guy and kept tabs on a particular elk........ So all of us that spend every weekend in the Mountains scouting and locating particular animals we are not fair chase hunters??????
Matt

 

[mtmuley]

So you don't think it's fair chase too scout for a hunt? That's all Moss did was Scout for the guy and kept tabs on a particular elk........ So all of us that spend every weekend in the Mountains scouting and locating particular animals we are not fair chase hunters??????
Matt

A hunter spending time scouting a particular animal for himself is hardly comparable to the Austad situation. mtmuley

 

[mdunc8]

Your story has nothing to do with this bill and was not part of the discussion when I posted. The bill prohibits folks from selling "GPS coordinates or a map, drawing, illustration...". That's it. That practice has nothing to do with fair chase. And yes, having your buddy provide you details about where he saw a good buck or bull last weekend is pertinent because it's EXACTLY what they're attempting to prevent people from profiting from. You're NOW taking it a step further by questioning whether babysitting an animal all summer violates fair chase. Regardless, it has nothing to do with this bill. I'm not familiar with the hunter you're talking about or the circumstances of his hunt, but he can still hire an outfitter, have him and his guides locate an animal, keep tabs on said animal, and then go back and shoot it once hunting season rolls around. This bill doesn't change that.

 

[Crumb]

I don't see why paying for coordinates is any better or worse than hiring a guide? After all if you just pay for the coordinates you still have to do all the other work yourself actually find the animal get there pack out, etc... but if you go with a guide they already have the animal found and in many cases take you to it pack it out four you, etc... so in the end what's the difference? Now I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either side, but I really don't think there is a big difference between the two.

 

[LopeHunter]

He hired Moss and his Posse to find and monitor the bull all summer prior to his hunt. They had the bull pinpointed twice for him (the first opportunity he missed) and he harvested the bull approximately 12 miles away from where it originally had been ranging. This is straight from the B&C investigation. If you don't find continual, long term surveillance of a specific animal (especially on public land) over MONTHS by a well paid third party to ensure harvest of a specific animal to be unethical and the exact kind of "pay for a specific animal" situation they are talking about I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I find this to be VERY close to a canned hunt in my view.

That infrastructure and effort by the 3rd party over a period of several weeks makes you a sniper rather than a hunter. A sniper that missed the target on first go, btw. Add in alleged shenanigans blocking roads, false signs and intimidation of hunters attempting to scout the spider bull area then you have shook hands with the devil to put that bull on the ground. Reminds me of the fat, wealthy guy on his 3rd marriage to a woman younger than his daughter yet the guy thinks the wife loves and admires him. Uh, no. You have hired a woman to put up with your repulsive features. She is a prostitute and you are a john. You are not smooth and you are not a player. In the same way sniping that bull does not make you a hunter no matter how many times you get slapped on the back as someone else whips out a knife to notch your tag and start field-dressing the bull as you are whisked back to the private airfield. How is that earning something? It is not. Trust me, the posse is laughing as soon as he was driven back to the airport in the same way a stripper laughs and rubs your arm when you are over-tipping her. Never confuse your station in an adventure or you will look as awkward in a group picture as that guy.