Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?

[cjcj]

Wow Gunner has gone "WILD" ...Here is a balanced and fair argument. Yes Buzz its 100% true that ignorace of the law is no excuse, and also true that it is up to all hunters/sportsman/etc. to check and stay up on current changes in laws and regs,.....However in the case that Ten Bears stated "F.S. giving out the wrong information" no reasonable L.E.O. would write a citation, and if he did it would sure to be thrown out [not guilty] there is a part of a conviction called "knowingly".

 

[BuzzH]

cj, you're making a huge assumption that ten has valid information....

I find it very difficult to believe that if the FS was giving out old maps they were failing to tell ATVers about any new regulations.

This sounds like one of those, a friend of a friends cousins uncles mom told me the FS was handing out old maps.

cj, do you also believe in santa claus, the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy???

 

[cjcj]

Buzz i`m not assuming anything, just going by Tens statement.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"I find it very difficult to believe that if the FS was giving out old maps they were failing to tell ATVers about any new regulations."

Buzz, I found it hard to believe but it happened to Steve and I .
I knew from keeping up on the ATV rule's and trail restriction's in my State that some changes had been made.
We stop into the FS station around Garden Valley Idaho to pick up a new map and get more info. on the new reg. , when I unfolded it to take a look and make sure we knew what was open or closed I saw it had not been updated as it should of been it was the same old map I already had in the truck ,we told them that we know there were some new restriction's on ATV's in the area and we needed to know what road's or trails were now closed.
She told us OH WELL I dont have that new map in yet ,you will just have to be carefull ---What the %^$#? Be carefull !!!!!!!!!
When we told her that wasn't good enough that we knew there were new closures that were to be marked on the map's and how they needed to do there job if they expected the user's to also be responsible ,another guy came out of his office and told her she could would have to mark the closure's on the old map's they were giving out untill they got more updated one's.
She then brought out another map that was updated and took our's back so she could update our's by hand.

Had we not been up to date on what was going on in regards to ATV rules in our area we would of took her word for it and used the old map and could of been sighted for being Fat Assed ATV riders out breaking the law.

It's not always the ATV rider that is out to break the law or do damage , as we found out it can be the public servant that is to lazy to get out there high lighter pen and fix the screw up's. It's much easer to place the blame on the ATV user.


As has been pointed out in this post ,it's up to each rider in whatever State they are riding in to find out the rule's and reg. in each area they might be using,as it can be different depending on who manage's the land.

 

[Moosie]

Originally posted by BuzzH:
do you also believe in santa claus, the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy???

Santa Is real !!!!!!!!

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME,

You did the right thing by keeping up to date with the rules, the FS did the right thing by highlighting the maps for you.

The problem is, 99% of the fatassed atvers DONT want to keep up to date on the closures and DONT want to have to shell out a whole ten bucks for an updated map. They want to run all over the country side with the throttle wide open.

If any ATV rider is stupid enough to not check into closures, rules, new regulations, etc. they deserve to be ticketed, fined, and regulated even further.

With the constant barrage of new regs coming out, new closures, and all the press it recieves, there just isnt any excuse to pretend like you "didnt know the rules".

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie said, "Santa Is real !!!!!!!!"

You should know, he brought you a sheep tag and a sheep this year!

 

[JoseCuervo]

My guess is CJ wants Santa deported, as he crosses into the US with out any papers....

 

[Ten Bears]

MD, you had a similsr experience that I did. I have had it done to me here in the coeur d' alenes and down in the salmon/challis area. They had old maps, but new regulations, and were to lazy to even give me a written list of the new area closures, or even the road numbers.

I would like to see the new forest management plans printed on the free newspaper type maps again, and set it up so that the state ATV fund picks up all or a portion of the bill.

EG, where is it always illegal to load dead critters on an ATV? (Still waiting)

 

[cjcj]

Originally posted by ElkGunner:
My guess is CJ wants Santa deported, as he crosses into the US with out any papers....

Think of how many jobs "Santa" has taken from americans!!!

Fed EX/U.P.S./ Post office/ etc.

 

[guppie9]

I think there is a really valid point in one of Gunner's posts that needs to be highlighted.

The loss of vegetation and soil erosion, Gardner said, also lead to water pollution. "It costs time and money to repair the damage that's done by a few irresponsible users ," she said.

That is why I think people should not be so quick to judge all of the ATV'ers out there. Like I said before, it is a few dumb-asses that are screwing everything up for the rest of us. The responsible riders should not be punished because of the idiocy of the minority. (BTW...I am not sure that "idiocy" is a word, but if it isn't, it should be!!!)

There are plenty of responsible riders out there that are doing the right thing and not getting noticed for it. You should take that into account before proposing a ban on anything.

Oh...and also...

My guess is CJ wants Santa deported, as he crosses into the US with out any papers....

ROFLMFAO....now that was funny

And one more thing...Santa is American. He lives in North Pole, Alaska...about 2 miles from my house. So no need to worry about any illegal Santas.

 

[guppie9]

oops

 

[Ithaca 37]

At one time, maybe about a hundred years ago, some of the automobile drivers were saying, "We really don't need stop signs and speed limits. It's just a small minority that are giving the rest of us a bad name. We can educate them."

 

[cjcj]

Yes CJ thinks "Santa" should have a passport when he flys into the country [at least a green card] since he lives at the north pole deportation is not in order. And yes Guppie its true most of the "jerks" on ATV`s are NOT hunters, down here in AZ we probably have more "full throttle" jerks than anywhere. If Buzz/gunner could see the damage done to the desert they would "freak".

 

[Delw]

WOW mars would be proud I have a 6 page thread going on wooo hooooo


Delw

 

[Muledeer4me]

MD4ME,

"You did the right thing by keeping up to date with the rules, the FS did the right thing by highlighting the maps for you."


"If any ATV rider is stupid enough to not check into closures, rules, new regulations, etc. they deserve to be ticketed, fined, and regulated even further."

I have always agreed that anyone breaking the law should be given big fine's.

I also know it's hard for even those of us that try real hard to be on top of the ever changing rule's to get GOOD UP TO DATE INFO.
I only got my map highlighted because I knew they should have updated map's and I knew enough to know it would be by butt if I didnt follow the new reg.


Only after the other guy heard us going over and over it did he step out and make sure she highlighted it and by the way she had the copy right under the desk all the time all she would of had to do pull it out heck I could of used the highlighter and did the work myself.


Quote from guppie9
"P.S. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match or anything, IT, I just think it was a poor analogy. Plus, anytime people start talking about banning ANYTHING based upon the poor judgement of a few individuals, it gives me a moment of pause. That is the same logic that the anti-gun crowd uses."


I couldn't agree with you more guppie9.

It has to be pointed out that the system isnt working up to speed and we need to get up dated map's and sign's in place and hire more inforcment.

The lady we had to deal with was trying so hard not to highlight our map we were starting to think she was one of the SI posters in drag .

 

[guppie9]

At one time, maybe about a hundred years ago, some of the automobile drivers were saying, "We really don't need stop signs and speed limits. It's just a small minority that are giving the rest of us a bad name. We can educate them."

IMHO, I don't think that is a valid analogy. What those drivers were theoretically saying was that there shouldn't be any rules. I haven't seen anyone in here arguing that there shouldn't be rules for ATV riders. In fact, the title of this thread is "Do you think all ATV riders break the law?" So its not a matter of should we institute laws, but whether or not the current laws are adequate or being broken too often.

By your logic, then, I could argue that because almost all drivers speed and because they are breaking the law, then, perhaps, we should ban all motor vehicles. The difference is, I think you can argue that the majority of drivers do speed, whereas, I think it would be very difficult to prove that the majority of ATV riders are breaking the law.

P.S. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match or anything, IT, I just think it was a poor analogy. Plus, anytime people start talking about banning ANYTHING based upon the poor judgement of a few individuals, it gives me a moment of pause. That is the same logic that the anti-gun crowd uses.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by guppie9:
That is why I think people should not be so quick to judge all of the ATV'ers out there. Like I said before, it is a few dumb-asses that are screwing everything up for the rest of us. The responsible riders should not be punished because of the idiocy of the minority. (BTW...I am not sure that "idiocy" is a word, but if it isn't, it should be!!!)

Gusieppe,
The problem with ATVs is that EVERYbody that gets on to them ends up losing what ever brain cells they had. I have seen way too many otherwise smart people get on an ATV and then proceed to do something stupid, myself included.

I think law-abiding citizens automatically start breaking the law when they get on ATVs. Therefore, we must ban them all.

 

[AKHighmark]

Originally posted by ElkGunner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by guppie9:
That is why I think people should not be so quick to judge all of the ATV'ers out there. Like I said before, it is a few dumb-asses that are screwing everything up for the rest of us. The responsible riders should not be punished because of the idiocy of the minority. (BTW...I am not sure that "idiocy" is a word, but if it isn't, it should be!!!)

Gusieppe,
The problem with ATVs is that EVERYbody that gets on to them ends up losing what ever brain cells they had. I have seen way too many otherwise smart people get on an ATV and then proceed to do something stupid, myself included.

I think law-abiding citizens automatically start breaking the law when they get on ATVs. Therefore, we must ban them all. </font>[/QUOTE]Such a generalization that everybody breaks the law. Get off your high horse....

I use my ATV's to get to my cabin on state approved trails. My family and friends don't go tearing up the land like you preach all "fat Azz ATV'ers do".

I really can't understand where you come from. I'm not sure if all your ranting is just to get a rise out of people or if your really this delussional(sp).

 

[JoseCuervo]

There is only one "s" in delusional. But you were pretty close...

Here are some examples of somebody being stupid when they get on an ATV...

Leon County boy dies from injuries in ATV crash


An 8-year-old Leon County boy died Monday morning from injuries sustained in an ATV crash, said Lt. Linda Butler of the Leon County Sheriff's Office. Daniel Padgett was with his family at the home of friends at about 7 p.m. Sunday when he rode an ATV around a pond behind the home. A neighbor said the ATV hit a bump and flipped on top of the boy. He was wearing head protection at the time of the incident, Butler said. He was rushed to Tallahassee Memorial Hospital and died Monday from internal injuries, Butler said. The incident was ruled an accidental death, she said. The child was a student at Hawks Rise Elementary.

John Poehlmann, director of field operations at the Agricultural Experiment Station, Columbia, gave youths facts on how to avoid serious injury or death from operating all-terrain vehicles. There is an average of one death each day in the United States from ATV accidents. Four of every 10 ATV injuries that require care at a hospital emergency room involve victims under the age of 16, he said.

National statistics show that one out of every five ATV operators is less than 18 years old. Driver error is involved in 59 percent of the injuries, the environment in 50 percent and 42 percent involve mechanical problems with the ATV. Causes of each accident may involve one or all three reasons.

ATV injuries are six times more likely to be fatal than thosefrombicycleaccidents, Poehlmann said.

On Sunday, September 5 at about 1:50 p.m., Robert Calderone, 41, of Mineola, was driving a yellow Suzuki all-terrain vehicle in the vicinity of the South Street Sand Pits in Manorville when he collided head-on with a red Honda ATV being driven by Tyler Greenwood, 29, of Manorville. Calderone, after being admitted into the University Hospital at Stony Brook by Suffolk Police Helicopters, was pronounced dead as a result of his injuries.

Greenwood was also transported to the University Hospital at Stony Brook and, as of press time, remains in critical condition. Police report that a third ATV was involved in the accident, a black Yamaha driven by Kenneth King, 32, of Bethpage. King received minor injuries in the accident and refused medical treatment at the scene, according to police.
All three of the ATVs were impounded by police for safety checks and no criminal charges have been filed as of press time, however, the investigation is continuing.
With the death of Calderone come more questions regarding ATV usage in Suffolk County.

Mass. hamlet mourns teen ATV fatality
By Herald staff
Thursday, September 16, 2004

Chalk marks and a battered tree were the only remnants yesterday of an all-terrain vehicle crash that killed a Douglas High School freshman and seriously hurt his friend, stunning the small town of 8,000.

Jake Bachand, 14, died Tuesday night after he lost control of the ATV on Ledgestone Road and rammed a tree. Bachand's death marks the second time in a month a Massachusetts teen was killed riding a four-wheeler.

Douglas police Chief Patrick Foley said the entire town was suffering from the loss. ``This is not just a tragedy for the families, this affects the entire community because everybody knows these people,'' Foley said.

Two teens were killed Aug. 25 in an ATV crash in Hardwick.