Day at the Range

cahunter805

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I’m sorry Bill but it’s not a brass issue. His OAL is long and probably touching lands. Also he stated he is using his lands measurement from a speer bullet as well as Nosler data.
I’ll bet he loads 44gr seated to 2.735 and has no problems with ejection or brass.
 
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SD_Prairie_Goat

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Use the Barnes data! They made the darned bullet, trust them on seating depth!
Let's pretend I'm new to this, why would max seating depth vary by manufacture? Is that due to bullet geometry? Or something else?
I figured if I stayed below the standardized value it would have to alright since my chamber was built around those same specs, right?

Tomorrow I'll build a couple rounds and go test again with the seat depth lowered.
 

cahunter805

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Bullet geometry ie bearing surface, ogive and nose length varies a lot as well as mono bullets are much longer than a lead bullet of the same weight.
 

tom338

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find load data on the Barnes web site, its free. Use it!! Be careful and if just starting ask lots of questions and read lots.
 

ImBillT

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Let's pretend I'm new to this, why would max seating depth vary by manufacture? Is that due to bullet geometry? Or something else?
I figured if I stayed below the standardized value it would have to alright since my chamber was built around those same specs, right?

Tomorrow I'll build a couple rounds and go test again with the seat depth lowered.
Yes bullet geometry is related to how the bullet interfaces with the lands. Max COAL is used primarily to insure that all factory ammo will fit into all factory magazines, and has little to do with how the bullet’s ogive relates to the lands. Barnes X bullets will cause higher pressure spikes when jammed than most other bullets because they are solid and they use a relatively sticky alloy. I believe most of the newer all copper bullets use an alloy that is closer to bronze and thus more lubricative.


Still, if you don’t get a new ejector mark each time you fire, then the ones that are on there were probably from previous loadings at higher powder charges, and the current sticky bolt lift could be unrelated to pressure.
 

cahunter805

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Sticky alloy? Please explain this? They are a 100% pure copper bullet. Some mono bullets like an Etip or GMX are made with a gilded metal copper alloy.

A Barnes bullet would create more pressure if jammed into the lands because it is a longer bullet and has more bearing surface vs a lead bullet of the same weight given the same powder charge for both.
Many people shoot Barnes bullets jammed or close to the lands. I’ve personally loaded them and had good results close to the lands. The powder charge needs to be less than a lead bullet but it does work.
 
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ImBillT

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Sticky alloy? Please explain this? They are a 100% pure copper bullet. Some mono bullets like an Etip or GMX are made with a gilded metal copper alloy.

A Barnes bullet would create more pressure if jammed into the lands because it is a longer bullet and has more bearing surface vs a lead bullet of the same weight given the same powder charge for both.
Many people shoot Barnes bullets jammed or close to the lands. I’ve personally loaded them and had good results close to the lands. The powder charge needs to be less than a lead bullet but it does work.
Gilding metal has a lower coefficient of friction than pure copper.

It’s just as long whether it’s jammed into the lands or not. The reason that jamming into the lands causes a greater pressure spike with a solid is because the soft lead core allows the jacket to deform to match the rifling more easily than the solid the solid copper bullet. The driving bands cut into the newer Barnes Xs supposedly reduce that problem somewhat in addition to reducing friction and barrel fouling. When Barnes first came out with bullets that had driving bands cut into them they advertised that you could use load data for cup and core bullets with them.
 
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SD_Prairie_Goat

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Alright, went back to the range today, yesterday there was too much driving rain...

Loaded up everything as before:
  • Hornady brass fire once, FL sized and trimmed back to spec
  • 44g of BLC2
  • 150g TTSX
  • Seated the bullet at 2.730 per the groups recommendations


First shot I fired was a control shot using some factory federal ammo. No sticky bolt, smooth going in just as smooth ejecting.

Now first round of the TTSX, bolt sticky. Always happens about with the bolt in the 3/4 position. Pulled out the case and put it back in the chamber, stiff going in, got stuck and had to use the cleaning rod to get it out...



Back to the drawing boards gents... Do we think its a powder issue then??
 

Brian in Montana

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I'll admit I'm a little perplexed. I still think its a pressure problem. What did your primer look like?

Also, I realize it was recommended by our comrades here, but 2.73 seems seated a little deep to me. Over seating a bullet can cause pressures to do some funny things.
 

SD_Prairie_Goat

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I'll admit I'm a little perplexed. I still think its a pressure problem. What did your primer look like?

Also, I realize it was recommended by our comrades here, but 2.73 seems seated a little deep to me. Over seating a bullet can cause pressures to do some funny things.
I thought so too, but wanted to give it a try, you'll see that I also tested at 2.792 with the same issue tho...


Primers look normal to me...

106800
 

cahunter805

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Hmmmmm

How are you sizing your FL brass? How is the die setup? Definitely shouldn’t be having those issues at 44Gr.
Also measure the lands with the 150gr TTSX so we know where you’re at.
Did the federal shot brass fit the chamber after firing?
 

SD_Prairie_Goat

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Hmmmmm

How are you sizing your FL brass? How is the die setup? Definitely shouldn’t be having those issues at 44Gr.
Also measure the lands with the 150gr TTSX so we know where you’re at.
Did the federal shot brass fit the chamber after firing?
Using lee die, put it in the press as the lee instruction indicated. Screw in until it hits the case holder, then screw 1/3 more and lock down.

I'll try to measure lands later.

And zero issue before or after with the factory federal brass. I re chambered it after shooting it and it cycled like butter
 

HiMtnHntr

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Your primer in the above pick looks slightly flattened and obviously you still have pressure issues. It's hard to say for sure what exactly is going on without knowing every step in your process. From the outside looking in it seems this combo you are working with just isn't working. Perhaps try the min load of 41.7 of varget and COAL of 2.735. I would stick with the book length until you get this figured out.
 

JLS

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I went back through all of this and noticed your trim to length is too long. You said you trimmed to about 2.1. Spec is 2.005. This would be the first thing I checked.

Your chamber is fine
It’s not a brass issue
You are not seated into the lands

Are you crimping these? Make sure you are not inadvertently putting a crimp in and trim them right this time.

49.9 grains is max load. You are definitely experiencing pressures issues at minimum load, so something else is causing it.
 
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