RobG
Well-known member
I'm going to drive up there tomorrow (Wednesday), leaving Bozeman around 4 or so and check out the existing and proposed access sites. Send me an email at [email protected] if you want to join.
Damn carpetbaggers!
- Thread starter Big Fin
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I was thinking this same thing. If he doesn't like it, too bad for him. Maybe he would pay better attention next time.
The Hedgehog
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Sounds like the douche should be required to move his house.
But from an "access" perspective, bear and beehive provide access to all the public land north of there in a snap.
But from an "access" perspective, bear and beehive provide access to all the public land north of there in a snap.
It seems the FS should have required a SUP from this landowner before any construction, even a driveway. It would have never gotten past a Environmental Assessment if construction was impacting pulbic land. Is the road county or FS maintained?
RobG
Well-known member
The road is on private land but it had an easement so people could access that public land immediately north. Schlueter built his house in the middle of the road, thus blocking access and violating the easement. What is so incredible is that there is a second road into the area, but as part of the deal that is being "negotiated" that road would be closed in favor of walk-in access via a trail that is about 3 miles longer with 1000' of elevation gain before you can even begin to hunt.
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RobG
Well-known member
It looks to me that those access points are significantly more difficult if your goal is the section 16 area.
The Hedgehog
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Difficult as in for somebody in a wheelchair?
Not saying a lanowner illegally building a house on an easement then swindling the fs to reroute trails isn't a crock. Take a drive up that road and report back what you think.
. There's a reason I've only used it once. Not really any loss. Would still like to roundup my name on the guy's lawn.
Not saying a lanowner illegally building a house on an easement then swindling the fs to reroute trails isn't a crock. Take a drive up that road and report back what you think.
. There's a reason I've only used it once. Not really any loss. Would still like to roundup my name on the guy's lawn.katqanna
Well-known member
Rob and I just got back from checking this out. I took quite a number of pics. The guy built his house right next to the road and put his lawn over the existing road. Someone put a wood barricade in front of the public road that leads to his house. It was blatant. His drain field now extends right up to the old road. Checking a few things out with FS and some maps, but this is really shitty what he did. I will post pics as soon as I get them formatted and check with the maps.
RobG
Well-known member
Difficult as in for somebody in a wheelchair?
Not saying a lanowner illegally building a house on an easement then swindling the fs to reroute trails isn't a crock. Take a drive up that road and report back what you think.
Greenhorn - the good news is that it turns out the you can have your cake and eat it too on this topic! Next time you want to go hunting simply park your vehicle 2-3 miles from and 1400' lower in elevation from where you would normally park and walk - but here's the catch, you must do it for a really stupid reason, say because a bunch of rich selfish people want their own gated community with easy access to their own playground on public land.
That is basically what this appears to be IMO - keeping the riff-raff out to increase land values and lessen road maintenance costs. The west side of road 166B has been beautifully groomed - you could drive it with a full glass of champagne and not even spill it. The landowners (there are quite a few houses on the road, with more lots for sale) have sunk a lot of money into that road and don't want you and your truck putting potholes in it. That whole road would become private.
The east side road to the 403 trailhead would be closed to the public. In its place would be a 2-3 mile trail that (according to the article) drops 500' before climbing 1400' to the 403 trailhead. This road is well groomed for part of the way, but it is rough thereafter to the 403 trailhead. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that they will fix that road once the riff-raff is kept out so they will have a nice smooth drive to the trailhead. On the other hand, the general public will be forced to use the 2-3 mile trail with 1400' elevation gain going in, and 500' going out.
Right now you can gain access to public land at the 403 trailhead with about a 1/2 mile hike. The proposed deal would add 2-3 miles and 1400' to the hike before you could even leave the trail and start hunting.
This is really an incredible story of the public being manipulated. A guy illegally blocks off public access to a road and the settlement deal is that he gets to block even more access! Fine for you, but I'm tired of these people using their money to bulldoze my rights. This is one we can probably stop if we want to so you are either with me or you are with the scumbags.
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bigskyblueman
Member
I've been to the house and it sits square D in the middle of the end of the road. My understanding is the man is a friend of the Bush family and he couldn't care less what we think.
katqanna
Well-known member
Here are some of the pictures. I took a google earth so you can see the layout. We drove to the red line. You cant drive all the way around because his yard is on the road. At the other end of the southside road is a barricade of wood. I dont know who put it up, but it blocks the southern portion of this loop. Then we drove out the west side of the road where there is a giant ass arch. Thanks to Rob the tour guide. I need to talk to the Forest Service and consult some maps before posting the other pictures.
RobG
Well-known member
Minor point regarding your first picture. In my earlier before/after picture I overlaid the actual road path from a 1995 picture from Google Earth onto a 2005 version and it looked to me like the edge of his house actually is on the old road bed. Therefore the red line going around the house is probably being too kind.
It might not be clear to the other folks that the wood X-buck fence section is blocking the old public road. It is the red X in the first photo. If you go past this fence section you wind up in scumbag's yard (pics 3 and 4).
It might not be clear to the other folks that the wood X-buck fence section is blocking the old public road. It is the red X in the first photo. If you go past this fence section you wind up in scumbag's yard (pics 3 and 4).
katqanna
Well-known member
Rob, that red line around the yard was from the google earth. It was white, I just made it red, but yes, based on what we saw, in person, that line is too kind. Also, based on the Cadastral map, I think where 166D ended, we were already on the Forest land, which may be why all those no trespassing signs were shot to shit.
devon deer
Well-known member
This whole thing is corrupt!
There aren't many things I can say we have for the better in the UK (ok we don't have any public land hunting!) but one is called a planning process, you just can't put a property up anywhere, it has to adhere to what is called a planning policy, it doesn't matter if its a lowly person like me or the prime minister of my country we just can't build anywhere, if this were in the UK there is no way it would have been approved.
Cheers
Richard
There aren't many things I can say we have for the better in the UK (ok we don't have any public land hunting!) but one is called a planning process, you just can't put a property up anywhere, it has to adhere to what is called a planning policy, it doesn't matter if its a lowly person like me or the prime minister of my country we just can't build anywhere, if this were in the UK there is no way it would have been approved.
Cheers
Richard
OK, just so I understand it correctly since I'm a flatlander, the road has yet to be officially closed off? So far he's the only one blocking access to it? Sounds like there needs to be a few vehicles with rather large people in them heading up that road on a daily basis. Toss the barricade aside and drive on up through the yard and continue on. If the road is still open as per whomever decides such things there isn't anything he can do besides make a lot of noise. "Sorry man, guess you planted grass in the road." Sounds like he doesn't want to pay for the shortcut reconnecting the road and going around the house because he wants it closed FOR GOOD, not because he doesn't want to pay for it. I would find out FOR SURE the current road status and then use it accordingly. Screw his back yard.
The Hedgehog
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RobG - with you on it for sure. Putting his lawn over the road is a nice touch. What a douche.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Must've been a fast and surreptitious construction crew to get that thing up without sanctioning bodies noticing.
Did political pressure commence on the first grade stake?
Did political pressure commence on the first grade stake?
RobG
Well-known member
Schlueter claims he got permission, the Forest Service says he did not.
There are three relevant articles:
Landowner uses Congressional Ties to Sway Forest Service (Bozeman Daily Chronicle 8/11/13)
Public access and encroachment debated... (Bozeman Daily Chronicle 4/4/13)
Forest Proposes new trail to settle... (Billings Gazette 3/5/13)
The Billings Gazette article is probably the best summary and it has maps of the proposals.
I used to see this stuff all the time in the 80's in the Flathead area of MT when I was doing excavation. Some rich guy "accidentally" breaks the law. Then he says something like "You got to be kidding, filling that wetland was illegal?" The governing agency doesn't have the resources for a drawn out battle so a settlement is reached that is pretty favorable to the offender. It didn't sit well with us folks following the rules...
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katqanna
Well-known member
Okay, I just got off the phone with Kim at the Gallatin National Forest. I confirmed that there are TWO points of public access to the GNF from the current public roads. Below is a satellite map showing 166B. At the top of 166B, it makes a peak that connects to the Gallatin National Forest, there is a wash there with a trail of sorts. That is the first public access point from the motorized 166B. The second is on 166D, which we drove yesterday. We were in fact on the GNF at the end of the road, where there were no trespassing signs. The second map is the Gallatin National Forest Motor Vehicle Use map. This pdf is huge and you have to zoom in to get it to the point where I took the screen shot and added labels.
So if this road is abandoned for an extended trail with no motorized access, public hunters lose two access points to the GNF from this road, having to hike for miles up steep terrain before even getting to the GNF. In effect, Schlueter has captured a public access road, barricaded a portion of it, extended his yard over a part and pretty much taken two public access points for himself. Also, the Forest Service did not put up the wood barricade at the southern portion of 166B, which is blocking the road.
While walking on the barricaded portion of 166B south right next to his house, I saw a hunting blind which may actually be, at least partially, on the 166B road easement that he has blockaded. The brand is Redneck.
When we were leaving down the western side 166B I did see a small herd of elk that was grazing in a draw. So there are elk there.
So if this road is abandoned for an extended trail with no motorized access, public hunters lose two access points to the GNF from this road, having to hike for miles up steep terrain before even getting to the GNF. In effect, Schlueter has captured a public access road, barricaded a portion of it, extended his yard over a part and pretty much taken two public access points for himself. Also, the Forest Service did not put up the wood barricade at the southern portion of 166B, which is blocking the road.
While walking on the barricaded portion of 166B south right next to his house, I saw a hunting blind which may actually be, at least partially, on the 166B road easement that he has blockaded. The brand is Redneck.
When we were leaving down the western side 166B I did see a small herd of elk that was grazing in a draw. So there are elk there.
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