CVA muzzleloader misfires all the time

[windymtnman]

Many years ago, I bought a CVA Apollo model inline stainless rifle. I never shot it, and just put it in the gun case. Then, 3 years ago, I drew a Muzzleloader Elk tag, so I brought it out and began to practice with it. I had some Remington percussion caps left over from another Hawken rifle I had, and as I recall, they worked in the Apollo rifle okay, but I depleted them.
I bought some CCI brand #11 percussion caps just before the Elk season 3 years ago, and much to my dismay, they were constantly failing to fire when the inline hammer struck them. Sometimes if I recocked and kept trying to get the gun to fire, eventually on the 3 or 4th attempt, the cap might fire. Sometimes they'd never fire. I had no choice but to try using them, as the season opened, and I had no local access to order more. Those caps cost me a Bull, as I had one opening morning at 35 yards. He got to listen to the sound of a hammer falling on a cap that didn't fire.

So, this year, I drew another Muzzleloader Bull tag. I got some Remington brand #11 percussion caps. Last week, I started test firing them. About 70% of the time, they will detonate on the 2nd attempt, but rarely on the first attempt. The hammer on this rifle is a flat surface that strikes the cap. I don't know if that's the way other rifles are too, but somethings wrong here.
I emailed CVA about this, and they don't even answer me. That's pretty disgusting to see their ads, read their boasting of great rifles and experience this.

Does anyone know if this is a commonplace issue? I know the Apollo model rifle had a big recall due to a problem with the rifle blowing up, but my rifle doesn't appear to be in that recall.

HELP

 

[MThuntr]

Are the caps seating completely when you put them on? Have you tried changing nipples to test? How about replacing the mainspring as it may be too weak?

Maybe consider converting your rifle to shoot 209 primers (a quick google shows that it is available)

 

[Rooster52]

Get rid of that rifle and buy a new cva that takes the 209 primer.

 

[windymtnman]

As for getting a new muzzleloader, I'm pretty reluctant to go that route at this time. I only use this rifle every 3 years when I have enough preference pts. to get a tag. AT 66 years old, how many more seasons will I be hunting with it anyway?
There's no logical reason this should be happening, from the CVA company that's been in the black powder business for years. I'm willing to look into the changeover to the 209 percussion caps as suggested here, we'll see what advice comes in???????????

 

[TimeOnTarget]

As for getting a new muzzleloader, I'm pretty reluctant to go that route at this time. I only use this rifle every 3 years when I have enough preference pts. to get a tag. AT 66 years old, how many more seasons will I be hunting with it anyway?
There's no logical reason this should be happening, from the CVA company that's been in the black powder business for years. I'm willing to look into the changeover to the 209 percussion caps as suggested here, we'll see what advice comes in???????????

Exactly, With only about 20 years or hunting left, you shouldn't have to be dealing with these issues. Get a 209 rifle.


Is the cap not going off or it's not igniting the powder charge? If it's the cap not going off, Then I'd doubt it has anything to do with the rifle.

 

[windymtnman]

To convert this Apollo rifle to accept the 209 primer, do you just find a different nipple that will thread into the existing port on my rifle, and then it accepts this different 209 cap?
As I outlined in my post, this rifle takes a #11 percussion cap. I noticed that the Remington blister pack for what I just bought, advertises "40% more flame" in these caps. Well, that doesn't help if they don't fire! I would think the spring would/should be fine, as this rifle has barely been used. It seems that it sounds and feels like the spring is driving the hammer at a decent speed. Interesting that it fires most of the time, the 2nd time I re-@#)(# the action and fire again. So, perhaps the cap isn't seated properly, and the hammer hitting it the 1st time seats the cap, and the 2nd time, then detonates it?

 

[MThuntr]

I have had #11 caps be either too big or too small for the nipple so I'm guessing the caps aren't quite seated. I'm not exactly sure of the conversion but here is place to get one...http://www.deercreekproducts.net/store/c14/CVA_Staghorn,_Eclipse,_and_Apollo_Parts.html

 

[elkantlers]

I would bet that the cap is not seated fully on the nipple. With an unloaded muzzleloade,put a cap on the nipple as you normally would. Then lower the hammer/bolt slowly and see if you can force the nipple on further. If the cap seats further on the nipple with a little force, that is a problem. Remove the nipple and take a fine file or knife sharpener and lightly file the nipple down until the cap seats fully but is still secure. I had to do this with a knight rifle several years ago.

Also, I really like these caps and have never had one not fire.

 

[LCH]

I did a Mag-Spark conversion to my Hawken. Took all of 5 minutes, piece of cake.

Might also be able to trade yours for a 209 rifle. The CVA Buckhorns are only about $150. Not fancy, but they do fire.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Do they ever look kinda like a crushed beer can. I bet you are not getting them fully seated on the nip there can't be any air space. You may need to machine down the nip and try it.

 

[Blackbruin]

Or if you can go to a musket cap nipple. Yes make sure your nipple is striking flat, if it smashed on an edge you need to get the hammer to strike flat.

 

[windymtnman]

Spent percussion caps

With regard to what the caps look like after they're fired, they all appear to look the same. The sidewalls of the cap separate, and flare out into 4 equal sides. I guess that's from being just blown out.

 

[windymtnman]

After reading some of the feedback here, I unscrewed the nipple, examined and cleaned it, and then fit a cap on it. They do fit fairly snug, but I think the cap is fitted all the way on to the nipple, as I pushed on it with a screwdriver, and it didn't appear to move further on to the nipple. With the pressure I exerted, I don't think the hammer is driving it any further on.
In test firing it, I had about 30% detonations the 1st attempt and about 90% detonations on the 2nd attempt.

With regard to filing down the nipple to better fit & seat the cap, I'd want to be pretty careful doing that, as I don't want the cap to fit loose and fall off either.

 

[Rooster52]

For under $200 you can own a new CVA wolf that shoots 209 primers,is easy to clean and are very accurate.Spending $600 for an elk tag and the travel expense ,I would not take the chance of a misfire on a bull elk.and you can sell your rifle for something to recoup some of the money.I have two new CVA rifles and they are accurate and never give me a problem. I would never hunt with a muzzleloader that gives me any problems,but that is me.

 

[windymtnman]

In that I'm a Colorado resident, I only pay $46 for a tag, and have only a modest amt. of fuel to get me to my trailhead. However a memory made, is a memory, and I don't want another bad one, as in the past, of having a really nice mature bull at 35 yds. only to misfire! I'm going to try and figure this out before season. I was thinking about the high percentage of time the percussion cap will fire the 2nd time I pull the trigger on it, and thought wouldn't it be crazy if I fired the rifle on a cap, and if it didn't go off, then load the rifle, go hunting with it, knowing that 95% of the time the cap fires the 2nd time it's struck! Crazy.....

 

[elkantlers]

In that I'm a Colorado resident, I only pay $46 for a tag, and have only a modest amt. of fuel to get me to my trailhead. However a memory made, is a memory, and I don't want another bad one, as in the past, of having a really nice mature bull at 35 yds. only to misfire! I'm going to try and figure this out before season. I was thinking about the high percentage of time the percussion cap will fire the 2nd time I pull the trigger on it, and thought wouldn't it be crazy if I fired the rifle on a cap, and if it didn't go off, then load the rifle, go hunting with it, knowing that 95% of the time the cap fires the 2nd time it's struck! Crazy.....

Crazy? Yes. I would never load a Muzzleloader with a live cap on the nipple.

 

[Rooster52]

That sure would not be my choice of a way to go.

 

[kansasdad]

Me thinks it's time for a ML gunsmith to check it out, or time for a 100% reliable firearm. We do live in the 21st century after all

 

[idnative1948]

How many seasons will you be hunting? Hope you have as many as my dad. Think the last time he shot muzzy was when he was 88 and his last year at camp with us was when he was 90. Don't underestimate yoursel.

 

[Bambistew]

Another possibility is the "head space" on the firing pin/vs primer is possibly too long, the first time you pull the tirgger it nudges it on just a bit, the second time the primer is tight, and will fire. Did you try a different nipple?