Cold Hunt, Need Help With My Layers

[xOutlawx]

After 17 years of wearing Gander Mtn/Walmart hunting clothes and layers upon layers and STILL freezing my ass off, I've finally invested into "top tier" hunting clothing to hopefully make me more comfortable. I will be Spot'n'Stalk hunting with periods of sitting no longer than 2-3 hours in between walks. Temp range will be 0F-30F. This is what i currently have planned in my head:

Base Layer (against skin): To Be Determined (this is what i need help with)

Insulation Layer: SKRE Kaibab 300 Merino Wool Hoody & Pants

Outer Shell: Sitka Fanatic Hoody, Sitka Stratus Jacket and Stratus Bibs

For the base layer against my skin i am torn between the SKRE Kaibab 150 Merino Wool Long sleeve and Pants, or the FirstLite XD Kiln 250 Merino Wool long sleeve and Long johns.
What's racking my brain is the weight of the wool. I'm afraid the 150 will be too little and the 250 be too much (on top of the 300gsm insulating layer). Any recommendations?

 

[Dsnow9]

I would go lighter for your base layer with all the other layers you have. If you are hiking hard or heavy you will want to dump heat and then add layers when you stop hiking. 0-30 is a pretty big range though.

What state and season dates are you hunting?

I always opt for a light weight base, mid weight second layer and then puffy pants and jacket when I’m glassing.

A lot of it is personal preference and style of hunting you are doing.

 

[xOutlawx]

it will be Early December in North Pennsylvania but the location i hunt is much colder than the regional average for the day. I said 0-30 just because i am unsure what the temp will be. If i had to narrow it down to a good guess i would say 20's

 

[Cemetery Sling Blade]

I like First Lite layer systems. Never been warmer -10-30.

 

[Robert N]

Go four layer, or even five layer. Remember, you can take it off…but if you don’t have it, you can’t put it on.

My take (*56 years old, 172#, 5’8” average health) during a 2-3 sit in Middle TN (it hits low teens…even high singles):

Layer 1: 32-degree synthetic thin long shirt and long underwear.
Layer 2: Merino wool 200 long upper shirt, 150 lower long underwear
Layer 3: A Vest: I really, really like my electric vest (*also heats my neck). Lowers: light fleece layer, maybe. Being 100% transparent - if I get a great night of rest, I generate more heat than if I’m getting a lousy night of rest. So, the lower is a maybe. I’ve had this upper/lower light fleece setup for 15+ years. It just works.
Layer 4: choose the outer layer: heavy jacket…or shell outer. If it’s really bitter out, I’ll do a light down jacket layer…. No need for more on the lower layer…but I am adamant about a 3/8” (*or better) foam pad to sit on.
Layer 5: Wind/Rain proof shell.

Note: I also run a double, thin, neck gaiter and in some cases two beanies. I cannot, remotely express how critical it is to keep the neck and head warm. It absolutely must be kept warm and protected at all costs. Skip the head/neck and all bets are off…)

The key to this whole setup is Layer 3: the 7.4v Electric Vest (*yeah, 7.4v…not the lower level 5v versions). I can get 8+ hours on low setting…2-3 hours on High setting (and it’s smoking hot).

Here’s the thing, I’m absolutely fine doing a dead sit in single digits for about 90m with the full 5 layer setup. At 90m…exposed (not in a blind) and sitting on a foam pad (critical insulation) - the lack of movement gets to me and my core gets cold. When’ the Core gets cold, the body shuts down extremities first. Feet get cold. Hands and fingers get cold. Trigger fingers…get numb.

The e-Vest changes that whole paradigm. Around 90m in, I can hit that little button hidden under two other insulating layers…on high for 10m…then drop to low for however long it takes. The Core warms…the hands and feet come back.

I also keep a couple of dry-chem warm-packs. Heaters. For the backs of my gloves or my hand warmers. Those rock…absolutely worth it.

Boots: I currently run zero insulation boots (*crispi laponnias)…double layer socks, thin synthetic and thin wool layers. When I get to my position, the first thing I do is undo my laces and open the boots up: better circulation is the benefit. Heck, I’m going to shoot the deer and drop it…I have plenty of time to lace back up.

Anyway, back to the original question: you wanted to know how to keep warm?

Yeah, that’s my load out. I’m old enough to have learned I don’t need to suffer needlessly. I’ve done enough suffering to know fully that suffering is purely optional. I’d bet my entire kit has only one thing that’s not exactly normal: a $90 electric vest with two batteries I keep charged up. (*I’ve never needed the second…)

ps: my longest sit on a cold sit (*7 degrees) of exposed ground (*no blind, just exposed), 5 hours. About 4:30am to 9:30am. It’s the last two hours that sucked the most. I was plenty warm…I just needed to flex my knees!

 

[Robert N]

PS: Core Warmth. Core Warmth. Core Warmth.

Did I say it enough?

I’ve been riding motorcycles for 30 years…probably a quarter million miles in that time…the key to sitting around for hours upon hours upon hours at a time in truly nasty conditions (think, Newfoundland /Labrador in 35 degree driving rain…at 65 mph, with a brutal cross wind)…electrics are salvation. They are Eden. They change the game.

My hunting layout may be overkill…but sometimes overkill is the only option to equalize the elements.

Dealing with the elements and the cold are mandatory.

Suffering is purely optional.

 

[pwrwgn57]

I realize everyone is different with comfort in the cold but I think you’re going to be overdressed with all those layers. I hunt the same area in PA and over the border in NY and I’ve never needed that much insulation to stay warm multiple hours on stand, especially if I move every couple hours.
If it’s around 30, I’ll wear a light to midweight base layer and a Cabela’s Dry Plus Insulated Pullover. For pants typically lightweight base layer under Sitka Mountain Pants. Fleece beanie and midweight gloves. Uninsulated Kenetreks and midweight socks.
If it’s dropping down towards zero and/or wind is blowing I’ll add a heavier midweight layer or fleece turtleneck on top and I switch to a lined pair of Cabelas Dry Plus pants or a pair of insulated bibs. Thicker beanie and heavy fleece gloves. Typically same boots but I sometimes go with heavy socks and Muck boots if snow is on the ground.
As for Robert N’s post, I’m pretty sure I would sweat to death sitting still with all that on, but again, everyone’s tolerance is different.

 

[Robert N]

As for Robert N’s post, I’m pretty sure I would sweat to death sitting still with all that on, but again, everyone’s tolerance is different.

I truly have no doubt I’m probably on the “colder” end of the spectrum (*thanks Mom!).

Tolerances definitely differ.

PS: if I’m actually walking (*like, literally at any pace, slow or not), I’m totally fine in a very light layer setup. But damn, sit me down for 5 numbing still hunt hours…yeah, I’m shivering.

And truly, I’ve drawn a lot of positive genetic straws (live to 90+? Not a problem…Cholesterol at 142? Bring on the red meat!)…but managing to stay warm in a motionless cold…yeah…no.

I didn’t’ get that one. /sigh…Thanks Mom!

 

[std7mag]

Yeah, it gets frigid here in PA also.
Add humidity to the low temps and sometimes gusty winds, there are days when I stay in the house.

But on the cold days I do go out hunting, I use base layers by Cold Proof.
They come in different thicknesses depending upon how cold it is.
And they are less expensive than Under Armor.

Avoiding sweating during the periods when your moving is the key thing.

I usually wear a moisturizer wicking tee shirt, the Cold Proofs, and a camo sweatshirt while moving about.
I carry a jacket in my backpack for when I plan to sit.

 

[xOutlawx]

So I have a top and bottom set of Red Head Elite Heavyweight base layers. But they’re polyester base layers. Wouldn’t a merino wool base layer be better? So my layer would be as follow:
-Red Head Elite Heavyweight top and bottom

-SKRE Kaibab 300 Merino Wool Hoody and Bottom

-Sitka Fanatic Hoody (which is a lighter weight fleece to wear so my camo matches when I’m not wearing the Stratus Jacket)

-Sitka Stratus Bibs and Jacket

Would that be an ideal layer setup or should I ditch the polyester base for a merino wool base, like a 150 merino long sleeve and bottom?

 

[kwyeewyk]

So I have a top and bottom set of Red Head Elite Heavyweight base layers. But they’re polyester base layers. Wouldn’t a merino wool base layer be better? So my layer would be as follow:
-Red Head Elite Heavyweight top and bottom

-SKRE Kaibab 300 Merino Wool Hoody and Bottom

-Sitka Fanatic Hoody (which is a lighter weight fleece to wear so my camo matches when I’m not wearing the Stratus Jacket)

-Sitka Stratus Bibs and Jacket

Would that be an ideal layer setup or should I ditch the polyester base for a merino wool base, like a 150 merino long sleeve and bottom?

The most important part of the base layer for me is that it's comfortable, fits well and stays where it's supposed to be. I have various materials, light weight poly, heavier merino, some old silk/merino blend polar weights. It's nice to have options and a change sometimes, since you don't already have a light weight base I'd grab the 150s if you can swing it. The lightweight poly ones at Costco are a steal, they're probably only about 100 weight but that's what I like for most stuff above 20 degrees, and very cheap but decent quality.

 

[belshawelk]

first layer head to toe including sock liners needs to poly pro. Warm and wicks away moisture which is the main culprit for getting col

 

[MTGamecock]

I'm pretty cold-natured myself. +1 on the heated vest (with heating elements in the neck). Like @Robert N said above, they were a game-changing discovery for motorcycle riding in cold weather and can be effective for hunting as long as you have a power source to charge them. The key is to get one that fits fairly snugly against your body - tighter than you would normally wear as an outer layer - and wear a shell over it to lock in the heat. I don't wear mine on the hike in. I tend to sweat like a pig on the hike in and then start to freeze once I'm still for half an hour or so. I stuff it in my pack, sometimes with the shell jacket, and then pull it out once I'm still. My general rule of thumb is to wear a lot less for the hike than I tend to think I'll need for the temps and pack a lot more clothes in my pack for the glassing/sitting than I think I'll need for the temps. But the vest, when I can use it, eliminates a lot of issues. I rarely have to turn it up higher than the lowest setting.

For my base layer, I have a couple of sets of old Eastbay running tights and tops. They don't get soaking wet with sweat and seem to create a nice thin insulating layer between my skin and the mid-layer. If it's particularly cold, I'll even wear those under a thicker base layer. Eastbay is no more, but you can find similar running tights anywhere. They're pretty cheap because they aren't marketed to hunters.

 

[Dougfirtree]

I think you'll want lighter base layers with that setup. Poly is fine. Merino is fine. I don't really know the layers you're describing, but there aren't a lot of them, which makes me think they're thick. Make sure you have mid-layers/pants that work for moving around, when you're not sitting. Flexibility with layers is key if you're mixing up moving with sitting. I'm assuming you have a good warm hat, too..

 

[glass eye]

I have wool pants and shirt and even in very cold weather I get heated up with the pants.
With the shirt it’s easy to unbutton or take it off but not so easy with pants on.
I’m talking NZ alps in winter and coastal Alaska in winter.
I’m sure Alaska interior in winter I wouldn’t be shedding them.