JohnCushman
Well-known member
Yup....thanks to point banking if it existed still....
CO CPW Draw Process Working Group
- Thread starter TheGreek
- Start date
JohnCushman
Well-known member
It is a gamble, but you can't win if you don't play. Don't whine about hunting low point units if you're not willing to spread your wings to go somewhere else while collecting points, but still hunt every year and then bitch about it when you don't hunt
John, you're telling a bunch of people that hunt every year and build points that they don't know how to hunt every year and build points.
we're just saying, there are unintended consequences of point banking that outweigh the positives of point banking. I think it's a very bad solution, if it could even be called a solution.
we're just saying, there are unintended consequences of point banking that outweigh the positives of point banking. I think it's a very bad solution, if it could even be called a solution.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
But that gamble shouldn't be dictated by a bunch of whiners not willing to use the current rules to their advantage....
JohnCushman
Well-known member
Don't hate the 'player' for their due diligence....
JohnCushman
Well-known member
And it's still not my fault that they don't hunt.....
it's like saying saying the sky is blue and someone retorts back "no dipshit, it's blue"
seeth07
Well-known member
John, I'm guessing the frustration is the fact that there are numerous hunters that are hunting every year while also gaining the point under the system thus devaluing the entire purpose of having points in the first place. While I get and understand why a person would like to do that when the "target" hunts you are after are in the 2-6 point range of which aren't seeing a lot of point creep, its still a broken system and in the not so far future is going to turn even worse due to the demand each year only increasing
JohnCushman
Well-known member
I appreciate your comment and have always respected you opinion. I'm spending the 8 points I have on a tag this year because that's how the system works. I saved and banked those points with the intent of getting this tag. I could have drawn this same tag as a reissue for 3 years without spending my points, but CHOSE to get other tags instead. Banking the points was my choice so I could plan future hunts. There are good tags available every year if you are willing to try and get them. Does it always work? No Does it stop me from trying? No I'm willing to try to get 'lesser' tags to hunt every year while saving my points for the tag I really want to be guaranteed. I don't think 'point creep' is as much of a problem as Eastman's or other online sites setting standards for units and giving unrealistic expectations of what hunters can expect. The tag I'm trying for this year is considered by many as a crap tag. The same unit in 3rd season you used to be able to get as a leftover until Eastman's put it as a good unit. I used to have the are to myself during archery elk, but now it looks like a KOA campground thanks to eastman's. Do I whine? No Do I complain? No I simply change my strategy to a better situation. There's no point in coming to a forum and whining about something if you're not willing to work the system to your favor and just bitch about 'point creep' as an excuse not to hunt every year.
Wait, people save points!!!! I guess I got into the game too late, I hunt zero to 1 point units every year. Have been able to pull a few tags off the reissue as well but it is what it is. I will continue to hunt the units and places other people don’t want to. It just works for me!
seeth07
Well-known member
I don't think people are whining about not being able to hunt CO every year. There are OTC options so if you aren't hunting their every year, you are doing it by choice.
The whining is how unrealistic it has become to obtain a higher quality hunt in CO than what an OTC or 1-5 point hunt provides.
I'll provide an example that I'm familiar with.
An archery unit in western CO used to be hunted by my cousin who lives in GJ every couple of years back in 2000's. 2005 it took 2 points to guarantee a tag, 2010 it took 3. NR were 2 and 4 respectively. This is not an easy hunt with a lot of private land issues and elk that tend to know where private is. The low tag numbers that CO provides for this hunt code however does enable some decent quality and with local knowledge, my Wife and I started to apply for the hunt in 2012 as our first year. Spoiler alert, we were never able to catch the point creep hit by NR for this unit/hunt code. For my cousin, it hasn't been much better. He drew in 2014 his last time using 5 points. In 2020 when he had 5 points built up again, the hunt code took 8 points. Last year, 2023 draw, it took 9 and he was 1 point behind being able to get the tag again.
This is just one example but its happening all across the units in CO - some faster than others. There used to only be a few units where it took a resident more than 5 years of waiting to get a bull tag and now that list is getting longer with no end in sight of it slowing down. It is significantly worse for the NR. With that all said, there are still some fantastic hunt codes that only take 2-5 points to get BUT two of those that I'm familiar with used to be a second choice option just 5 years ago. In a decade if the course stays par, they will take 10 points and while I would consider the 2-5 years for those hunts to be a good value, waiting 10 years likely isn't.
The whining is how unrealistic it has become to obtain a higher quality hunt in CO than what an OTC or 1-5 point hunt provides.
I'll provide an example that I'm familiar with.
An archery unit in western CO used to be hunted by my cousin who lives in GJ every couple of years back in 2000's. 2005 it took 2 points to guarantee a tag, 2010 it took 3. NR were 2 and 4 respectively. This is not an easy hunt with a lot of private land issues and elk that tend to know where private is. The low tag numbers that CO provides for this hunt code however does enable some decent quality and with local knowledge, my Wife and I started to apply for the hunt in 2012 as our first year. Spoiler alert, we were never able to catch the point creep hit by NR for this unit/hunt code. For my cousin, it hasn't been much better. He drew in 2014 his last time using 5 points. In 2020 when he had 5 points built up again, the hunt code took 8 points. Last year, 2023 draw, it took 9 and he was 1 point behind being able to get the tag again.
This is just one example but its happening all across the units in CO - some faster than others. There used to only be a few units where it took a resident more than 5 years of waiting to get a bull tag and now that list is getting longer with no end in sight of it slowing down. It is significantly worse for the NR. With that all said, there are still some fantastic hunt codes that only take 2-5 points to get BUT two of those that I'm familiar with used to be a second choice option just 5 years ago. In a decade if the course stays par, they will take 10 points and while I would consider the 2-5 years for those hunts to be a good value, waiting 10 years likely isn't.
seeth07
Well-known member
I chose to not point out deer just because the deer herd in general in doing poor. It's a variable that complicates and exaggerates the data. Elk however are doing well and thriving in CO with the population over the last 20 years not seeing a significant change.
seeth07
Well-known member
Just to be clear where I stand on this because I know it sounds like I'm arguing that there is a huge problem to fix - I do not think CO has a massive point creep problem for its resident allocation of which is the only metric that CO should be concerned about. I think it is slowly turning into one under the system and its only going to exponentially get worse over the next decade if some tweaks to the system aren't made and residents will find themselves in the same spot NR are right now with point creep.
it does complicate it.
but at the same time, even in units that cpw is increasing buck tags in the name of cwd, the ability to get second choice tags diminishes - or has already dissappeared - with every passing year.
WildWill
Well-known member
Haven't been able to listen yet can I get the cliff notes on why. Also did they recommend any change or status quo for point?
Hnthrdr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2020
- Messages
- 173
Buddy sat in and commented, sounded like 90% of the regular joes that commented wanted otc option for resident, or for it to go all draw but have a true 75/25 no soft cap. Commissioners were pretty clueless from the sound of it and will stick with what they put out prior
Bigjay73
Well-known member
Have I got good news for you......
Foldem
Well-known member
Yeah you guys are right, this system sucks let’s change it.
Guess what? Otc is going away next year. The reissue system is changing this year. Your 2nd-4th choice tags are going to take your points going forward and you won’t be hoarding points.
I don’t like hunting does and cows on leftover tags or otc archery antelope on the plains or even otc rag horns anymore.
You guys know nothing about me. I WILL hunt good tags EVERY year in Colorado and other states. I’m more worried about people that can’t and our younger hunters than myself.
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Where did you hear the reissue system is changing this year?
