Cementum aged critters - Let’s see them..

[Brad]

Yes, we can provide age estimates from any tooth from pretty much any mammal you can kill or find. The I1's generally work the best for ungulates, but with elk the ivories are the tooth that biologists/researchers use from live-pull elk when they are doing collaring so those also seem to work well. If you want the crown back just specify that and pay the shipping back.

That's good news! I've shot two bulls I have ivories for that I suspect are 10.5+ years old. One in particular I shot in 2021 - teeth totally worn flat, and in the worst flesh of any bull I've ever shot. Eyes sunk in its sockets, mange, broken rack from fighting. He wouldn't have lived through the winter. I'll be sending his ivories in...

 

[Big Sky Guy]

That's good news! I've shot two bulls I have ivories for that I suspect are 10.5+ years old. One in particular I shot in 2021 - teeth totally worn flat, and in the worst flesh of any bull I've ever shot. Eyes sunk in its sockets, mange, broken rack from fighting. He wouldn't have lived through the winter. I'll be sending his ivories in...

Sweet! Sounds terrible to eat but I'm sure burger taste just as good as other elk!

Is the tape around the middle of the barrel just to replenish the end of barrel tape after a shot? I've seen this and never asked anyone or known if there is another reason for it?

 

[Brad]

Is the tape around the middle of the barrel just to replenish the end of barrel tape after a shot? I've seen this and never asked anyone or known if there is another reason for it?

Exactly right - to replenish the shot-out piece at the muzzle.

 

[MTTW]

Here is an Alaskan moose that my brother shot. It was aged by Matsons at 5.

 

[Southern Elk]

Imagine shooting an elk and finding out someone beat you to the ivories.

I have totally forgotten to take the ivories on multiple elk.

 

[DFS]

I have totally forgotten to take the ivories on multiple elk.

I went through a game check with a cow and they asked where the ivories were. I said I left them and I saw jaws hit the floor. I was young didn’t know I was supposed to take them.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

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How old were you that day? because there was a minute there that it could have been your last year

 

[psinclair]

How old were you that day? because there was a minute there that it could have been your last year

53 if I recall.
You documented my underwater plunge into ice cold runoff… when I came up for air I remember you trying not to laugh, but you did anyway…
That was a hell of an adventure.

 

[Caseknife]

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This bull had some unusual ivory wear. I have his teeth to send in.

Real old or abrasive feed

 

[Caseknife]

11
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Kurt, have you ever shot anything normal sized? Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

53 if I recall.
You documented my underwater plunge into ice cold runoff… when I came up for air I remember you trying not to laugh, but you did anyway…
That was a hell of an adventure.

 

[Vic Colfari]

Montana Grizzly Bear one shot with a 25-35 ended his 6 year career...

What is the story about an MT grizz hunt? When was that? Pretty cool skull to have.

 

[DFS]

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That looks miserable

 

[psinclair]

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Haha, I figured you still had that picture.
We had a pretty good tale for Buzz when we got back up on top..

 

[antlerradar]

That does bring up something I have been quite curious about. Hey @Big Sky Guy when they find a random human skull does csi send there teeth to you ie does it work on humans and is that how they come up with age?

doesn't work well with hockey players, meth heads and hillbillies.

 

[antlerradar]

Tooth wear on the jaw matched up with other bucks from the area of the same age, interesting data point for sure. He was just the Muggsy Bogues of the buck world.

You got any pictures of that 12 year old three point your uncle shot?

 

[It’s Bucky]

You got any pictures of that 12 year old three point your uncle shot?

Somewhere in the archives. If I find it, I’ll quote your shed photos and share

 

[BrentD]

My understanding is there really isn’t a need for it with humans, especially with DNA taking such a monumental role in solving that stuff, once you know the vic/perp you’re going to know the age since we all have birth certificates.

We do not process human teeth or tissue, but the process would be the same and likely work. Gary processed a tooth from a dentist friend decades ago and got within a couple years on a 40 something year old female IIRC.

We have received human teeth unexpectedly but that’s a story to tell in person and not on an internet forum.

Given that modern humans do not experience seasonality like wild animals, what is the mechanism for making annular rings in nongrowing teeth? I am curioous why there would be rings in something like a bear as well. Those teeth stopped growing long ago, no?

 

[MTTW]

My son killed this deer in 2016. Aged by Matsons at 6.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Given that modern humans do not experience seasonality like wild animals, what is the mechanism for making annular rings in nongrowing teeth? I am curioous why there would be rings in something like a bear as well. Those teeth stopped growing long ago, no?

The woman lived off grid in Alaska for over half her life and was raised in rural Appalachia with no modern amenities. I think @Frequently Banned Troll also posted a photo of her doing yoga in the mountains of Montana on here once as well.

J/K, the mechanism for annuli deposition is not fully known or understood, the seasonality is just best guess based on what we’ve seen aging millions of northern vs. southern populations but mountain lions, sheep, polar bears and river otters are all pretty difficult to age regardless of geography (obviously polar bears are only in very north lol and they are very difficult to age) so the theory has its limitations and exceptions for sure.

What is known is that cementum is continually deposited over the course of a mammals life as it is the connective tissue that “cements” the root into our jaw/skull. With bears and most other teeth we see once they get to a certain age the cementum layers become much more condensed as the amount of deposition/growth slows down and is not as great as this is part of aging.

It was surprising that the woman’s tooth was so easily aged. We’ve done some domestic dogs with similar results and been surprised. Usually there are annuli but just the pattern is not as discernible as it is with wild animals.