Call your Senators! CPW Commission Confirmation Vote - Delayed Again! Now Tues, 12 Mar!

[perma]

I hope they do and will start working on it. We need organized help, the anti's we are up are heavily funded and have stacks of lawyers intentional trying to drain CPW and the other state coffers if they don't get there way. We need help now. It would be difficult to change what has occurred, but we need to stop their movement and not stand by and watch it play out state by state, species by species.

We need help!

Maybe it’s a question best answered by @Oak or someone smarter than me, but are hunting advocate groups such as RMEF, WSF and MDF in on this issue as well? I know HOWL is all over this.

 

[Browning55]

Maybe it’s a question best answered by @Oak or someone smarter than me, but are hunting advocate groups such as RMEF, WSF and MDF in on this issue as well? I know HOWL is all over this.

Yes. Rmef is a member of the cwcp, they are involved on many levels and are representing hunters in co within their mission and capability of a 501c(3). They have also been a partner and financial supporter of CRWM efforts.

In regards to the most recent vote, 1,490 rmef members took action last week and sent messages to their Senators about the commission confirmation vote. This was a direct action alert from rmef additive to howls campaign.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That’s good advice, thank you. I actually contacted both over a dozen times the past 3 weeks, phone calls and personal emails. Actually spoke to an aide/rep from each. I wouldn’t describe my tone as “pissed off” during those calls. They were open to listen. I also requested in person meetings but they refused. I will try again once session is over. I want to believe that a regular individual can be a “trusted source” but not making much headway. I wonder if folks who represent an org or from a board of an org get more time.

Staff will always try to keep you from meeting with a person. That's part of the purpose of their jobs, and during a session, free time for legislators is really tough. Regardless of what we think of legislators, they're working 15-20 hours a day during sessions.

The interim - the time between sessions - is when you can make and develop relationships. This is when legislators are home, or more available for coffee. Attend events they will be at, even fundraisers. You kind of have a captive audience then. They're desperate for your check, and you get to lean in a bit on them if they are expecting you to donate.

If you are going to try and find a path to a relationship, the best piece of advice I was ever given as a new lobbyist was to "start from where that person is": Meaning find out something about that person that provides common connections as well as have an understanding of that person's political philosophy beyond the partisan labels & standardized positions (what do they do for a living? family? What kind of passtimes do you share enjoyment of?). Be empathetic, polite, noncombative and courteous, even when they get to do the opposite.

And never, ever call them pig ****ers.

 

[Visiting Hunter]

Every state needs a group like howl, to help organize us all. Build these teams now. Then us as individuals need to set the ego down if we want any sort of continued opportunities for our children and their children... these radical issues are going to continue to pop up and probably get more and more creative along the way.. I thought it was interesting it only takes 5% population growth to change a western states voting... that really puts it into perspective for Montana these groups could really influence pretty easy out here if we don't get the right knowledge out to other social groups around the state that dont necessarily disagree or agree on it, and staying organized every year I hope everyone was good on defense because it's all we will ever be playing if we don't change the course a bit.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Every state needs a group like howl, to help organize us all. Build these teams now. Then us as individuals need to set the ego down if we want any sort of continued opportunities for our children and their children... these radical issues are going to continue to pop up and probably get more and more creative along the way.. I thought it was interesting it only takes 5% population growth to change a western states voting... that really puts it into perspective for Montana these groups could really influence pretty easy out here if we don't get the right knowledge out to other social groups around the state that dont necessarily disagree or agree on it, and staying organized every year I hope everyone was good on defense because it's all we will ever be playing if we don't change the course a bit.

Mass influx of emails and calls is a part of advocacy, but it's increasingly less important, especially if there is not someone in the halls of a capitol to direct fire & call it off (most importantly).

When HOWL did their thing in MT, this was the response from pro-hunting legislators: https://dailymontanan.com/2023/03/2...actics-related-to-hunting-trapping-amendment/

I appreciate that folks are trying to make it easier for citizens to participate in the process, but the reality is that if it isn't genuine and authentic, legislators will not be swayed.

We see this all the time in state houses, both red and blue. Personally, I've had legislators tell me that if "you don't call off the dogs now, this bill will pass." Legislatures aren't a free-for-all where mob tactics take the day. Volume of comments does not ever indicate the path of a bill or proposed regulation.

 

[TOGIE]

Personally, I've had legislators tell me that if "you don't call off the dogs now, this bill will pass." .

legislators promising to pass bills out of spite.

and you don't want us to call them pig ****ers?

 

[Visiting Hunter]

Mass influx of emails and calls is a part of advocacy, but it's increasingly less important, especially if there is not someone in the halls of a capitol to direct fire & call it off (most importantly).

When HOWL did their thing in MT, this was the response from pro-hunting legislators: https://dailymontanan.com/2023/03/2...actics-related-to-hunting-trapping-amendment/

I appreciate that folks are trying to make it easier for citizens to participate in the process, but the reality is that if it isn't genuine and authentic, legislators will not be swayed.

We see this all the time in state houses, both red and blue. Personally, I've had legislators tell me that if "you don't call off the dogs now, this bill will pass." Legislatures aren't a free-for-all where mob tactics take the day. Volume of comments does not ever indicate the path of a bill or proposed regulation.

My thinking was is if a organization could bring all the different users together.. hunting, trappers, fisherman, even down to the wild life photographers and stay at home moms or dads who just visit a state park every so often... just laying facts out of what the bills mean. And dive a bit deeper into what it would mean for recreation and all users of wildlife. My mother in law is fallen into the wolves stuff years ago... she thinks they all should be protected and we are horrible for wanting to harvest them doesnt take into consideration how well they do and what it would mean if populations were to high... and its because she saw some propaganda in the early 00s and wants to see a wolf in the wild, not just yellowstone... well she's almost 60 not in the best shape, and doesn't spend much time outdoors... she's gonna belive if she wants to see them they should be protected and her mind has been made up ever since. Her and my father in law have almost been divorced over this subject... but that peice of propaganda was enough to change her mind forever.... thats all I really mean we somehow need to be more organized as a group and articulating the facts and dismissing the propaganda to the large majority of people. But it does have to be done tasteful and tacticly.. my father in law is a purist and very smart like you... and lays facts out doesnt really let his opinion sway his decision but tbe facts... but it's not catchy and it's not a picture of a innocent wolf pup or lion cub... we all think they are cute too... but having the kids in Colorado name the wolves in school class is wild peice of propaganda... it's attaching feelings not facts to the kids and really playing the long game... I guess I dont really know how to combat it in a large scale... but I would think having a honest group that proves to be honest like rmef would stand a pretty good chance at laying out both sides arguments, and letting people decide what it actually means for them... vs all the propaganda... but propaganda is sexier unfortunately. Again I don't have the answer.

I do agree we need some people in the frontlines willing to hault these issues.. I guess I'm just kinda at a loss.. the differences we all have with eachother in the hunting community are going to be the fall... these guys don't care if we think the seasons should be a week longer or shorter, or if its a trophy hunt, tag allocations etc... they don't want a season at all at the end of the day... so if we don't figure a way out to combat that propaganda, I do think it will eventually win. Little by little... then agency's like California will be hiring trappers and sharpshooters to hunt the lions and wolves etc... the same problem but now the hunts are not on social media so the animal rights activist feel happy, not knowing how much more money was wasted in the pit of waste we already make. I definitely didn't realize what you pointed out though so thank you.

 

[Ben Lamb]

legislators promising to pass bills out of spite.

and you don't want us to call them pig ****ers?

Yep.

Actions have consequences.

And if you put yourself in their shoes - and you're getting a bunch of emails calling you names, or as even some posters have suggested - people are reaching out to your employers and harassing them - what the hell would you do?

Be polite, be kind and be authentic. It's not that difficult. Our mothers were supposed to teach us this and our daddies should have beat it into us.

 

[TOGIE]

Yep.

Actions have consequences.

And if you put yourself in their shoes - and you're getting a bunch of emails calling you names, or as even some posters have suggested - people are reaching out to your employers and harassing them - what the hell would you do?

Be polite, be kind and be authentic. It's not that difficult. Our mothers were supposed to teach us this and our daddies should have beat it into us.

no you were referring to mass e-mails simply advocating for a position. not mass e-mails harassing people and their family.

as far as what the hell would i do? i'd never be a politician, there is no amount of money - my soul is priceless.

so, i dunno

 

[Ben Lamb]

My thinking was is if a organization could bring all the different users together.. hunting, trappers, fisherman, even down to the wild life photographers and stay at home moms or dads who just visit a state park every so often... just laying facts out of what the bills mean. And dive a bit deeper into what it would mean for recreation and all users of wildlife. My mother in law is fallen into the wolves stuff years ago... she thinks they all should be protected and we are horrible for wanting to harvest them doesnt take into consideration how well they do and what it would mean if populations were to high... and its because she saw some propaganda in the early 00s and wants to see a wolf in the wild, not just yellowstone... well she's almost 60 not in the best shape, and doesn't spend much time outdoors... she's gonna belive if she wants to see them they should be protected and her mind has been made up ever since. Her and my father in law have almost been divorced over this subject... but that peice of propaganda was enough to change her mind forever.... thats all I really mean we somehow need to be more organized as a group and articulating the facts and dismissing the propaganda to the large majority of people. But it does have to be done tasteful and tacticly.. my father in law is a purist and very smart like you... and lays facts out doesnt really let his opinion sway his decision but tbe facts... but it's not catchy and it's not a picture of a innocent wolf pup or lion cub... we all think they are cute too... but having the kids in Colorado name the wolves in school class is wild peice of propaganda... it's attaching feelings not facts to the kids and really playing the long game... I guess I dont really know how to combat it in a large scale... but I would think having a honest group that proves to be honest like rmef would stand a pretty good chance at laying out both sides arguments, and letting people decide what it actually means for them... vs all the propaganda... but propaganda is sexier unfortunately. Again I don't have the answer.

I do agree we need some people in the frontlines willing to hault these issues.. I guess I'm just kinda at a loss.. the differences we all have with eachother in the hunting community are going to be the fall... these guys don't care if we think the seasons should be a week longer or shorter, or if its a trophy hunt, tag allocations etc... they don't want a season at all at the end of the day... so if we don't figure a way out to combat that propaganda, I do think it will eventually win. Little by little... then agency's like California will be hiring trappers and sharpshooters to hunt the lions and wolves etc... the same problem but now the hunts are not on social media so the animal rights activist feel happy, not knowing how much more money was wasted in the pit of waste we already make. I definitely didn't realize what you pointed out though so thank you.

Perhaps our approach is part of the issue of making the division broader. We continually bemoan people not running with our messages, thoughts, etc yet we rarely ever reconsider our approach. The hunting community leads with it's chest and it's heart - rarely with it's head.

 

[Ben Lamb]

no you were referring to mass e-mails simply advocating for a position. not mass e-mails harassing people and their family.

as far as what the hell would i do? i'd never be a politician, there is no amount of money - my soul is priceless.

so, i dunno

To think that those emails don't get personalized after a few road sodas and get turned into an expression of frustration ignores the reality of mass-email communications.

Plus - if a legislator is getting 10-15 emails from you, regardless of how polite or unaltered the form email is, you're wasting their time, along with the 4700 other emails in their inboxes.

Expecting people to respond positively to a barrage of negative reinforcement is kinda like thinking the stripper really likes you.

 

[Visiting Hunter]

Perhaps our approach is part of the issue of making the division broader. We continually bemoan people not running with our messages, thoughts, etc yet we rarely ever reconsider our approach. The hunting community leads with it's chest and it's heart - rarely with it's head.

edit: testosterone, and egos

I agree with you, just the way I personally would word it.

 

[TOGIE]

Perhaps our approach is part of the issue of making the division broader. We continually bemoan people not running with our messages, thoughts, etc yet we rarely ever reconsider our approach. The hunting community leads with it's chest and it's heart - rarely with it's head.

same could be said of the other "side." emotional chest beating and falsities lobbed left and right.

the issue really just seems to be we're a minority in a state with an executive and legislative branch who's majority is fast tilting away into sympathy with/controlled by anti hunting.

no amount of tea and crumpets will sway my senator. maybe it would some others.

now obviously politeness, kindness, and authenticity should always lead the pack. i may express frustration in e-mails, but never resort to insults.

however, at the same time, if they don't wanna be called pig ****ers then don't be pig ****ers. actions having consequences should be a two way street. it seems the whole concept of actions having consequences only seems to apply to citizens anymore.

* randy, that's the last time i type out that profanity, i promise. sorry.

 

[Ben Lamb]

same could be said of the other "side"

I define my ethics through my behavior, not the behavior of my adversaries. If those folks want to fight dirty, that does not mean I get dirty as well.

the issue really just seems to be we're a minority in a state with an executive and legislative branch who's majority is fast tilting away into sympathy with/controlled by anti hunting.

Welcome to life in these United States. Was having this conversation with some friends recently, and it's a bit funny for those of us who have worked in hardline legislatures for decades. The shift in CO is no different than the shift in MT, except for the color of the shift. Both majorities can be antagonistic to conservation, yet both have the capacity to pass significant and meaningful legislation/budgets if they are worked correctly. The lesson that Coloradans can take away from this week is that mass emails & calls don't sway hardline partisans. But CO should also learn that there is a big enough swing vote in the senate that can be used effectively if you work on your arguments, improve relationships and don't call people you are asking to do something controversial or daring bad names.

no amount of tea and crumpets will sway my senator. maybe it would some others.

"Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions."

The English language is one of the finest weapons ever created Learn to use it effectively when you communicate with those you disagree with and you end up severing heads over biscuits and earl grey. And then afterwards, you get a scone and some tea. It's a lovely way to conduct business.

however, at the same time, if they don't wanna be called pig ****ers then don't be pig ****ers. actions having consequences should be a two way street. it seems the whole concept of actions having consequences only seems to apply to citizens anymore.

The consequence of them not doing what you want is you calling them a mean name. The consequence for you in them not doing what you want is materially worse. In this instance the retribution is a fly and the consequence is an elephant. If you want that person to have actual and real consequences for their actions then engage in the political process and knock doors for an opponent - or run! I'd vote for you, like, 17 times.

 

[noharleyyet]

I define my ethics through my behavior, not the behavior of my adversaries. If those folks want to fight dirty, that does not mean I get dirty as well.



Welcome to life in these United States. Was having this conversation with some friends recently, and it's a bit funny for those of us who have worked in hardline legislatures for decades. The shift in CO is no different than the shift in MT, except for the color of the shift. Both majorities can be antagonistic to conservation, yet both have the capacity to pass significant and meaningful legislation/budgets if they are worked correctly. The lesson that Coloradans can take away from this week is that mass emails & calls don't sway hardline partisans. But CO should also learn that there is a big enough swing vote in the senate that can be used effectively if you work on your arguments, improve relationships and don't call people you are asking to do something controversial or daring bad names.


"Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions."

The English language is one of the finest weapons ever created Learn to use it effectively when you communicate with those you disagree with and you end up severing heads over biscuits and earl grey. And then afterwards, you get a scone and some tea. It's a lovely way to conduct business.



The consequence of them not doing what you want is you calling them a mean name. The consequence for you in them not doing what you want is materially worse. In this instance the retribution is a fly and the consequence is an elephant. If you want that person to have actual and real consequences for their actions then engage in the political process and knock doors for an opponent - or run! I'd vote for you, like, 17 times.

 

[Ben Lamb]

View attachment 319131

 

[Coveyleader]

Maybe it’s a question best answered by @Oak or someone smarter than me, but are hunting advocate groups such as RMEF, WSF and MDF in on this issue as well? I know HOWL is all over this.

Simple answer, not really, and this is our issue. Dan Gates we t over this last week.

 

[tormenter]

One of the biggest hurdles in CO is that these people and decisions are voted in and the changes are all born on the front range. It was so great that 4 of the democratic senators crossed the line. After the vote was over, I even emailed my senator and thanked him even though I did not originally vote for him- and he sent me a personal response saying what occurred was wrong and that Jess wasn't the right candidate.

If the current political situation on the front range is as tight as it appears, I am not sure what we can do other than the try and change the next round of elections to find candidates that might be more wildlife and rural friendly.

The vote went 19 versus 0 on the frontrange - good lord!

I am not even sure what a lobbyist could do to sway any of those 19 unless one of them was convinced that they wouldn't survive the next election.

CO is beyond blue right now and we need to make sure these next round of candidates are sportspeople friendly.

 

[Hnthrdr]

legislators promising to pass bills out of spite.

and you don't want us to call them pig ****ers?

#MGGA (Make Guillotines Great Again)

 

[MNElkNut]

We can complain all we want. Can we harness the power of this forum to find possible solutions? As I step back and ponder this problem on a national scale, I have an idea. We need the right people to be the face of our cause. Intelligent, charismatic, likeable people that send the message we want to deliver. We need money to frame the message and employ those type of people. But we need to find those people and all start oaring in the same direction. We are starting to get organized here by calling a meeting of like-minded groups. It is a start.