Ca “poaching” case

glass eye

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
1,626
Location
El Centro, CA
Most GWs are good people but there are some that assume that if you are successful, you must be cheating.
Years ago 2 friends and I were hunting Delevan refuge. The speck limit was 2 and all 3 of us got our limit. That day only 9 specks were checked in including our 6.
The GW at the check station mumbled something that I couldn't hear. When we got on the road my friend says "Can you believe that GW said our geese were full of lead" It's a good thing I didn't hear him because I would have lost my cool. That really pissed me off.
 

WyoDoug

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Messages
2,796
Location
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Although the guys were guilty of baiting, I'm angered at the premise of the whole investigation being no tag in the hero pics. I always take pics without a tag on it. I fill out the tag first, take pics, and then attach it.
The CA DFG even used my pic without a tag attached in their TRACKS publication in 2007 ( elk in upper left corner)
I very rarely tag mine before I take the pictures myself. I don't see an issue with that and if a GW were to try and get me for something based on that, I would see them in court for sure. Luckily, so far the wardens in Wyoming have always been professional and friendly in my experience. No bad apples yet. I did experience an issue with a warden in Colorado that said I was "pursuing wildlife" when I drove on a dividing line road to get to the back end of a pasture. How was I to know game was present on that road? After a bit of talking back and forth he went on his way kind of gruff and realizing he was not getting me to confess to anything. Some plots of land are miles long so people that know about them take the dividing line roads to get from one side to the other.
 

jlong17

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
232
Location
'Merica
My state is so backwards, it's sad. I cannot believe the amount of resources and money spent on these two guys. Criminals are becoming more free, and the free are becoming more criminalized. I don't doubt these two fellas screwed up... but during that investigation several hundred thousand people crossed the border illegally into California, violent crime continued to rise, and I cannot for the life of me get a cop to respond in my community for drug related offenses. You think our priorities are a bit messed up? I always tell my wife when we are out hiking that if we were ever attacked by a mountain lion that I would do everything humanly possible before shooting it. We would have less severe consequences if we were cooking drugs in the mountains than shooting a lion. Craziness
 

eshunt

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
36
Location
Sierra
I read both of those guys responses/justifications on the bowsite thread. They both claim what upstanding and all around awesome guys they are. But both of them blatantly broke the baiting/feeding wild game in CA laws. They can't claim ignorance about it. "Oh, I didn't know it was illegal to feed the animals." "I was only doing it to get pictures, I wasn't hunting over the baited areas." That is complete BS in my mind. I live in CA. Everyone knows its illegal to feed animals here. They might have skated on some other charges, but if they disregard one law, they are definitely more likely to disregard other laws. Especially being "elite" and "sponsored" hunters, they are asking to be held to that high standard. Well, they got caught and are upset that someone tattled on them. Play stupid games - win stupid prizes.

Yeah, the game wardens were over zealous. And way too much money was spent on the investigation. But these guys are still shady in my eyes. It doesn't matter how many kids you take turkey hunting. Or how many pats on the back you get from other guys on social media. I don't think I would want to have guys like this in my hunting circle.
 

WildWill

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
1,049
Location
SE Oklahoma
I read both of those guys responses/justifications on the bowsite thread. They both claim what upstanding and all around awesome guys they are. But both of them blatantly broke the baiting/feeding wild game in CA laws. They can't claim ignorance about it. "Oh, I didn't know it was illegal to feed the animals." "I was only doing it to get pictures, I wasn't hunting over the baited areas." That is complete BS in my mind. I live in CA. Everyone knows its illegal to feed animals here. They might have skated on some other charges, but if they disregard one law, they are definitely more likely to disregard other laws. Especially being "elite" and "sponsored" hunters, they are asking to be held to that high standard. Well, they got caught and are upset that someone tattled on them. Play stupid games - win stupid prizes.

Yeah, the game wardens were over zealous. And way too much money was spent on the investigation. But these guys are still shady in my eyes. It doesn't matter how many kids you take turkey hunting. Or how many pats on the back you get from other guys on social media. I don't think I would want to have guys like this in my hunting circle.
Good points nobody came out looking great.
 

Birddog916

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
181
Location
Sacramento, CA
Do the crime do the time. I'm glad these guys got busted. I've hunted in CA most of my life and poaching is rampant here. Its horrible. Flouting game laws is unacceptable period. Job well done CDFW.
 

Bambistew

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2002
Messages
6,126
Location
Chugiak, AK
The wardens set out motion-activated surveillance cameras at the site, which later showed Frater carrying a bow and wearing a climbing harness, a sign that he was hunting, according to the affidavits. Meanwhile, a plane overhead was tracking Frater’s movements. The pilot spotted him one day practicing with his bow before driving to go hunt at a baited site, Moskat wrote.

WTF! How many days of air surveillance was conducted? The guys were suspected of baiting and they call in air support, and monitor them day and night? I'm actually surprised they didn't shoot them. You know they wanted to.

“In other words, if there are apples on the ground from a nearby tree, a hunter who otherwise legally hunts a deer within 400 yards of those apples (that’s four football fields) violates the regulation,” she said in an email. “That’s what happened here.”
This is pretty crazy. What about crop fields? What about wild plants bearing 'bait' foods?

It's amazing how quickly people are to judge and label hunters as poachers for stupid infractions such as not tagging immediately, no orange, lighted nocks, etc. I'm sure you all knotch your tag before setting your rifle down after the kill shot. Otherwise its not immediately upon kill. Regulations that are interpereted by dixkwad prosecuters are the worst.
 

Greenhorn

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
7,709
Location
Montana
WTF! How many days of air surveillance was conducted? The guys were suspected of baiting and they call in air support, and monitor them day and night? I'm actually surprised they didn't shoot them. You know they wanted to.


This is pretty crazy. What about crop fields? What about wild plants bearing 'bait' foods?

It's amazing how quickly people are to judge and label hunters as poachers for stupid infractions such as not tagging immediately, no orange, lighted nocks, etc. I'm sure you all knotch your tag before setting your rifle down after the kill shot. Otherwise its not immediately upon kill. Regulations that are interpereted by dixkwad prosecuters are the worst.
I say they should have been drawn and quartered.

I mean, those big deer pictures - they were clearly baiting!

They had GPS tracking devices placed on their vehicles, air surveillance, drones, surveillance cameras, and eventual searches done on their homes (wonder if their kids were home).. Jesus H Christ, Walt and Jesse never had it that bad..

That's damn joke.
 

Dakotakid

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
115
You guys are a tough lot, I have never heard a juror complain that there was too much evidence.

Defense counsel will often clutch there kerchief to their forehead and exclaim why did the investigators not do more.
In this one the defense gets to profess their indignation that how could law enforcement have done so much.

it is all theater expressed to elicit an emotion.
 

eshunt

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
36
Location
Sierra

Here's the court docs. Definitely guilty of baiting deer. And not the "I didn't know that those apples were there" kind of baiting. They were putting out deer pellets, spraying attractants, and buckets of apples.

Once again, I don't know either of these guys, but they are not innocent guys that just had jealous wardens after them. And for all their talk on other sites about how they are all about showing kids how to hunt with integrity, why are you letting them ride around in the back of your truck with a loaded rifle while baiting deer?
 
Top