Bush losing hunters support

[Muledeer4me]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/environment/environmental-accomplishments.html


"2002 Farm Bill: Helping America’s Farmers Conserve Their Lands"

"President Bush supported and signed into law a Farm Bill that enhances conservation and environmental stewardship. Under this Administration, funding has nearly doubled for these effective programs. The Farm Bill conservation programs are providing up to $38 billion over a decade to restore millions of acres of wetlands, protect habitats, conserve water, and improve streams and rivers near working farms and ranches."


Bush is doing good thing's.
The best thing is he isnt a Liberal Democrat that isnt intrested in the defense of our country.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Or........
You have Kerry, who goes after only the most important of game, does it in full view of the public, with nothing to hide, and successfully completes his mission with two roosters.

Gosh, as a hunter, I wonder who I would rather spend time in the field with? "


Elkgunner, my answer would be


"The MAN who goes after the most important of game and wont back down in the face of the liberal Democrats that want to hand over our country to the limp wristed Gronala crunchers and the Man that can stand up in full view and defend US the PEOPLE."
If we aren't fist free the rest won't matter .

As we already know from you and Ithaca any old fat asses ATV rider can shoot chit so i'm not sure a picture with dead stuff means that much .LOL

 

[ELKCHSR]

Hey elkchsr, you're a joke.

While you're busy smelling the daisies, the absolute best Wildlife habitat in Montana is being threatened by Bush and his cronies...

As usual, you only see what you want... I might as well add Gunner into this also since he is wanting to jump in on your little band wagon of one!!! I see that most on the board seem to understand what it is that I put out, only those that close their eyes to the actual goings on in the world and are so focused on a small spot they don't see any thing else just can't and won't get it. I really do believe that you wouldn't understand my "ranting" but Gunner is just parroting what it is that you spew. Even if any of the things are done that you have said along the "Fronts", show me where it will be allowed to damage an area to the point that any of the wild life will be put at risk, or any where in RECENT HISTORY. I am sorry that your people in power have been losing the battle and your life is almost to the point of being mute. I can't help that and no amounts of petty smallness on your part will change that. I suppose that your only outlet any more is to lash out at those that you know for a fact can't hurt you any more, except with words alone. I do understand how this works though, what is said by some on these boards hit at the core of your existence and deep down you know it is true, so by lashing out with venom and ignorance just make yourself feel better, that is the real joke here... If nothing else at least Debbie and I can give you a little comfort in your obvious pain and discomfort as a whipping post, have you been a jerk and a bully your whole life, or is it you were beaten up to much as a kid and now take it out on those you don't think can fight back. Be a gentle man and you will be treated as such, be any thing else and reap what you sow...

 

[pawclaws]

Elkgunner I kind of like that gun too. Got one just like it; never been fired. A "the divorce is final present" I bought for myself a while back.

 

[BuzzH]

Hey MD4ME, take a guess why Bush OK'd the farm bill, educate yourself....

Ducks unlimited and the farmers had to raise all kinds of hell so Bush would keep things status quo on the farm bill, he wanted to slash the shit out of it....thank goodness those greenie commies at DU kept an eye on things.

Elkchsr, you continue to spew pure bullshit, as usual. Its amazing that anyone that lives in MT wouldnt know whats going on with the Rocky Mountain Front country, for christ sake you must live in a bunker...with the AM radio blasting limbaugh...hell I didnt even know am radio came in so clear in bunkers.

Oh, and elkchsr, ask Canada how their Rocky Mountain Front country has been changed/destroyed by the oil industry.

Of course the oil industry wont harm the Front country in MT...stuff like this is great for wildlife and its habitat...This is how the oil and gas industry has done thing in "recent history".

Oh, and one last comment you hypocritical dumb ass, go look at the first post you made on this thread, your acting like a "gentle man"???? F.Y.

 

[Nemont]

Buzz,
Couple of things Kerry has stated that he intends to drill like never before, all over the U.S. to provide jobs for Teamsters. I can give you the quote again.

I am a DU member, and I used to be a RMEF member but they quit having a chapter here so I give more to Walleys Unlimited and Pheasants forever, and think drilling on the Rocky Mountain front is stupid and have given $$$'s to organziations which fight that issue.

The picture you posted of the gas field is in your backyard in Wyoming not Montana

I understand that Alaskan Oil goes mostly to the orient.

If you think Kerry is a great friend to hunters then so be it, that is your opinion. I just don't believe it; that is my opinion.

One question were you telling me or Elkchaser that one of us didn't know diddly about waterfowl? Because if anything I do know something about waterfowl

P.S. EG it was Bush senior who shot the killdeer.

Nemont

 

[BuzzH]

Nemont, I wasnt referring to you, just elkchsr, (on the waterfowl and front issue), he DOESNT know jack diddly shit about much of anything.

Also, I've never endorsed Kerry, and I've openly stated on this site that I wont be voting for him or shrub. Many on this board apparently lack comprehension and think if you dont support bush, you have to support kerry.

I'm also completely aware of where that photo was taken, I've been there and seen it. I've also seen similar areas all over Colorado and other areas of Wyoming...and will be seeing more like it in MT real soon, unfortunately.

The point of the picture was to show what WILL happen to the front if shrubs energy bill plans are enacted. According to elkchsr, that type of "multiple use" doesnt effect wildlife or its habitat...as hard as that is to believe (that anyone can be that dense).

Nemont, I dont typically disagree with much of what you post, you seem like an intelligent person, unlike some on here...

 

[pawclaws]

Buzz; why the heck aren't the pipelines constructed high enough overhead to prevent what I am seeing there? Isn't there somebody, maybe EPA, taking a look at ehese things?? I'm all for progress and cheaper and more plentiful oil; but, not at the expense of our wilderness. It doesn't seem to me like a life or death situation where the impact can't be minimized or negated with some thought.

 

[BuzzH]

Paws, its coalbed methane development, supposedly you need a well on about every 80 acres or so.

The cost of raising the hundreds of miles of pipelines above ground would be staggering, I'd guess.

The main reason that I object to CBM is because of the amount of roads, drill pads, and pipelines that it requires. Another big problem is what to do with the water that has to be pumped from the ground and discharged. The water is full of saline, bicarbonates, and who knows what else. Discharging large amounts of groundwater in arid semi-desert areas like MT, WY, CO, also has negative impacts on water tables, vegetation, habitat type changes, etc. etc. etc. Not to mention the problems with the discharged waters causing pollutant problems, and increased sedimentation.

There are groups out there looking at ways to minimize impacts for CBM development, but the problem is that wells are going in faster than the effects can be studied and looked at. I'm 100 percent sure that there will be lots of negative impacts, its intuitively obvious. Pumping massive amounts of water out into the nearest gully, roading, and associated habitat fragmentation, along with increased access via the roads, all harm wildlife, you dont need to be a biologist to figure it out.

On the other hand, methane is a very clean burning fuel...I guess it comes down to weighing the benefits VS the costs. I dont think, over the long term, that developing CBM in places like the Rocky Mountain Front is fiscally, socially, or ethically responsible at all. Theres more to be gained (socially, economically, and ethically) from leaving that country as it is.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Just a little touch as usual I see. No matter what you say, you lost any argument you may have started just by the ignorance you portray. I will not stoop to your gutter, even to smell the sewer water that permeates from it.
I have seen this place also, it looks very devastated, but one thing for certain, it isn't a very big part of the U.S. It may look big if you aren’t used to seeing vast stretches of ground.
I would bet, even one as set apart from the rest of humanity as you are, still use the products/byproducts from these wells in one way or another.
So while you are denouncing every one else for what ever the reason, the only one here that is the real hippicrite is you. If this is such a big deal to you, why don't you get some money together, buy up "ALL" of these lands you chatter about saving and put them in a trust no one can touch. You may even ask Ol' Ted if he would please donate to the cause.
I suppose if what I said was so wrong and out of place you wouldn’t be any where near as nasty as you are, but in my life, I have found that those that scream the loudest, bully the hardest and call the most names, were usually the ones that knew the least, and didn't want to confront their own wrongs. Just an observation.
You still didn't tell me what wild life will be put at risk. I do recall that when I was driving thru this area, the only large animals out there that were roaming free were antelope, and there were definitely plenty of those. Of course I didn't see any Buffalo, I don't even remember seeing any cattle, but then again I wasn't looking for them on that outing...
So before you go trying to eat on others, including myself, (if I really cared if you do or not), you need to look in your own back yard and not be so much of a hypocrite, I think I will go turn up the heat on my Natural gas and use up just a little more just because I am American and I can.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Here is a picture in the Tongass that I took last Summer. I don't know if you can see it as clearly as I thought it would show up, but the lake on the Left is a much browner color than the lake on the right. Clear cutting in the Tongass under Bush is done to water's edge.

 

[BuzzH]

Elkchsr, you really are an idiot, you are totally clueless...

Are you serious when you spew this total and complete bullshit, "I do recall that when I was driving thru this area, the only large animals out there that were roaming free were antelope, and there were definitely plenty of those"

Really, plenty of antelope? Why dont you inform the readers of SI here, how many antelope tags are given out for the country surrounding the front. Then compare that with other areas in eastern MT.

Your BS is getting thick, man, real thick. The front has been proclaimed, by the MTFWP as the top percent of Wildlife habitat found anywhere in the lower 48. Learn to read dippy....

Its no wonder you're goal in life is to dig ditches, your pea brain couldnt handle anything more complex than that.

Until you have something worthwhile to post and until you get a basic 3rd grade education, try not to make yourself look like a retard and refrain from posting on subjects you know nothing about.

What a schmuck...

 

[pawclaws]

Gentlemen tlet's stop the name calling. Let me point out that the only way any problem of this magnitude will be solved is by cooperation. Not by compromise, or consensus; but cooperation. As I see it, if extraction of the gas is to be done; there must be an alternative found to pumping saltwater above ground. This seems technically possible. Pipelines must be elevated so as not to disturb the local flora and (the other thing I never can spell), without damaging the eco-system. If these things can not be done, then drilling at this time is simply out of the question. What's so difficult about that? Not too many years ago we could not extract oil from the gulf because we simply didn't have the technology to do so; now we do. Drillers and lease holders; be patient, your time will come, or not. Work together and we can have our environment and gas both. Work at odds and we'll do neither.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Also, I've never endorsed Kerry, and I've openly stated on this site that I wont be voting for him or shrub. Many on this board apparently lack comprehension and think if you dont support bush, you have to support kerry."

Buzz,
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. LOL
Is there much difference in the way (you ,Ithaca & elkgunner) have lacked the comprehension to understand that those of us that don't agree with everything you say are not in support of the pillage and plunder of nature?

I think you made the point we have been trying to get some of you to understand from day one.
That because someone wont take the same road isn't the same thing as not wanting to get to the same place in the end.


"Work together and we can have our environment and gas both. Work at odds and we'll do neither."

Paws,great statment there.
Thats what elkchsr has been trying to get people to understand.
It shouldn't be all or nothing, by working together we can finds better ways of using our resorces and keep our own people in job's and have healthy wildlife population's.
What I have learned on this forum is ----if you don't walk around with your head up Buzz,Ithaca,or elkgunners butt and agree with everything they say then you must be a moron.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Say what you want Buzz...LMAO!!!
When the name calling starts, all any one sees of your posts is Elkchsr BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
I can't help it, that is just human natur. No one wants to see grade school play ground trash talk, or they would be in the school yards listening to it....LMAO!!!
Who is really clueless...

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME, I agree that there may be technology in the future to limit the impacts on the way CBM is developed.

Unfortunately, RIGHT NOW, the only way that anyone is talking about developing CBM is in the precise way of the picture I posted...thats where the technology is.

So, I agree with Paws, until the technology changes, I'll fight tooth and nail to keep the front from being torn apart and adversly impacting the critical and best wildlife habitat found in Montana.

Compromise in this situation, right now, with the current technology, and you can kiss that country goodbye, its over. Its not worth it, and I wont be compromising until I find some damn convincing evidence that: 1. we are at this moment in that big of an energy crises (I dont believe we are), and 2. that it can be developed with NO impacts on the wildlife and habitat.

So, thats why I said I wont be voting for shrub or kerry, because neither seem too interested in anything thats important to me. Theres no hypocricy in that, its just me sticking to my beliefs and what I expect out of a candidate worthy of my vote.

 

[ELKCHSR]

That was a good post and I could actually sit and read with interest the whole thing...
Thanks Buzz....

 

[Muledeer4me]

Buzz,I happen to agree more with you then against you on alot of these issues.
We only part ways on how to get there and who to vote for.


But it's real hard to agree with you when you post this type of crap about others .


("Its no wonder you're goal in life is to dig ditches, your pea brain couldnt handle anything more complex than that.

Until you have something worthwhile to post and until you get a basic 3rd grade education, try not to make yourself look like a retard and refrain from posting on subjects you know nothing about")

Buzz,Ithaca,Elkgunner,

Maybe I'am screwed up again ?
But I forgot what line of work you guys are in ,what one of you were the BRAIN SURGON and who is the ROCKET SCIENTIST ?

Help us out here,all of us dumb asses that post here would like to give credit where credit is due!!!!!

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME, when was the last time we had a discussion on brain surgery or rocket science?

Also, if we did, I likely wouldnt argue facts posted by a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon...

 

[flcowpoke]

Hey Paws, it's "fauna"!