Bitcoin - Cryptocurrency

SAJ-99

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Cherry picking info much? What's it done in the last two weeks, two month, six months, year?
What? It was 48hrs ago! Not like I had to go searching for it. My point is the argument for it as a store of value or an inflation hedge doesn’t have much credibility when you lose 17% in less than the time it takes to eat a sandwich. It needs to figure that out to become anything more than a lottery ticket.

Wall Street will provide clients with whatever they want...for a fee of course. Those banks are more interested in the technology than the use as a currency or an investment. I have said for years that there is a market for an active cryptocurrency fund that is diversified in the main ones, can keep track of the potential regulatory news flow and impact, and can actively trade/hedge the position. It took them longer to get there than I would have thought.
 

Flatrock

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Serious question @Flatrock, @TOGIE, @ajricketts and anybody else that is following crypto...

Where do you think BTC & ETH are on 12/31/2021?

I'll say BTC at $50-60k and ETH at $6-7k

I feel like you could throw a dart at wall with numbers from 0-100,000 and whatever it hits could be correct. Real helpful, I know....

I would guess bitcoin will be higher but who knows. I wouldn't be surprised it trades above 50,000 and also below 20,000 throughout the year.
 

Flatrock

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I have said for years that there is a market for an active cryptocurrency fund that is diversified in the main ones, can keep track of the potential regulatory news flow and impact, and can actively trade/hedge the position. It took them longer to get there than I would have thought.

Not really sure what you mean. There are plenty of crypto funds. Additionally, various institutions have been trying for many years to get crypto ETFs off the ground and the SEC never approves them.
 

SAJ-99

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Not really sure what you mean. There are plenty of crypto funds. Additionally, various institutions have been trying for many years to get crypto ETFs off the ground and the SEC never approves them.
I have to disagree. Not a lot of them and everything is tilted toward the retail investor (ETFs) or something the wealth management team sticks in HNW portfolios. I mean institutional-quality funds with the full support of banks sales staff behind it. Something that a pension fund or consultant would look at and not think it was clown show just created to suck in high fees. Those clients have to worry that if BTC went from $35k back to $5k they wouldn't lose their job for the bad investment. Those types of products are rare. I suspect it is because people are still trying to figure out what they (CC's)are. Is it a USD substitute or like gold or what? If you want it to go to $100k, you have to fix the volatility problem. I think futures contracts have helped, but there are still flaws in those.
 

Flatrock

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I have to disagree. Not a lot of them and everything is tilted toward the retail investor (ETFs) or something the wealth management team sticks in HNW portfolios. I mean institutional-quality funds with the full support of banks sales staff behind it. Something that a pension fund or consultant would look at and not think it was clown show just created to suck in high fees. Those clients have to worry that if BTC went from $35k back to $5k they wouldn't lose their job for the bad investment. Those types of products are rare. I suspect it is because people are still trying to figure out what they (CC's)are. Is it a USD substitute or like gold or what? If you want it to go to $100k, you have to fix the volatility problem. I think futures contracts have helped, but there are still flaws in those.

You mean somebody like Fidelity opening up a fund?
 

TOGIE

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to mirror sentiments in the "where's the bottom thread"

i dumped my tradable eth account in anticipation of stock market drop just a little bit ago today

long term eth account remains untouched, as it will, for a long time
 

SAJ-99

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You mean somebody like Fidelity opening up a fund?
Yeah, but more than just a MF. I think Fidelity announced one recently for HNW. Maybe something like a hedge fund. Mostly the difference is the marketing effort behind it. It is tough because the main purpose (inflation hedge) is to be long, but no institutional investor wants to be long if you drop 50%, which is a risk that constantly exists. That is why I suggested a diversified fund (even though the currencies remain highly correlated) and ability to hedge. That is limited because I don't think you can't short crypto, only the futures contract.
 

Flatrock

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Yeah, but more than just a MF. I think Fidelity announced one recently for HNW. Maybe something like a hedge fund. Mostly the difference is the marketing effort behind it. It is tough because the main purpose (inflation hedge) is to be long, but no institutional investor wants to be long if you drop 50%, which is a risk that constantly exists. That is why I suggested a diversified fund (even though the currencies remain highly correlated) and ability to hedge. That is limited because I don't think you can't short crypto, only the futures contract.
Gotcha. Yea I'm not sure how willing someone like Fidelity is to do that. Would definitely be plenty of issues to deal with. I'm sure eventually, there will be more mainstream ETFs but who knows when. Feel like the best way to hedge is simply to have a very small position.... Anywho, will be interesting to watch the roller coaster that bitcoin is!
 

BrinkOutWest

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I'm not sure if it will stick around. However, playing the charts and making quick cash on the way up has been alright by me. Personally, I think the economic system of our country is extremely broken. With that being said, it doesn't seem that bitcoin is sustainable both in the volatility it experiences, or the environmental impacts it creates. For now, I'll trade it based off the charts.
 

ajricketts

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BigHornRam

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BrinkOutWest

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In my opinion, it comes down to several things. The first is the way in which our government continually prints money as if it's not a big deal while our debt level soars sky high. I also think that we live in a society in which the vast majority lack delayed gratification, and thus we will in an environment based upon consumerism and debt. Ultimately, I believe it results in hyperinflation, a decrease in the value of the dollar, and the potential for an economic fallout. Time will tell.
 

Flatrock

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In my opinion, it comes down to several things. The first is the way in which our government continually prints money as if it's not a big deal while our debt level soars sky high. I also think that we live in a society in which the vast majority lack delayed gratification, and thus we will in an environment based upon consumerism and debt. Ultimately, I believe it results in hyperinflation, a decrease in the value of the dollar, and the potential for an economic fallout. Time will tell.
I've been hearing that since I was a little kid. Yes, at some point the debt will matter but it might be 50, 100, 200+ years before it matters. Maybe someday, our debt situation will improve. There have been occasional hiccups but the economy/stock market hasn't hardly ever cared about government debt.
 
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