Bird Dog Affordable Options?

The best dog I will probably ever own was a Lab-golden cross that cost me $35. Yep, thirty-five bucks. I met the mother and the gal who owned her (golden was her mom's dog). I knew instantly Ethyl (= premium gas in the old days) was special. And she was, in every way, at home, at someone else's home, and in the field. When I had to go out of town on coaching trips the other teachers would fight over who would get to take care of her. She was for all appearances a small black Lab. A guided missile at all times, at work or leisure. No health issues at all that I can recall. She died suddenly and almost instantly at age 11 for unknown reason. Just fell over. We should all be so lucky.

The late great Opal who died of cancer two years ago this May (also age eleven) was a non-papered Lab I picked out of a Great Falls newspaper on impulse during a business trip. After viewing the pups for twenty minutes I told the HS girl selling them that though $220 was almost a ridiculous price for a dog without papers (her dad simply never bothered getting them for the mother), I would write her a cheque for THAT PUP if she still had it when I came back through in three days. I got to see the mother and though not overly impressed I knew this pup was special. The father, a big registered black male, was just a few miles away and I was invited to visit but declined. It wasn't necessary. Within just three months Opal was doing it all - pointing, flushing, and retreiving uplands! She wasn't much bigger then than the roosters she was picking up.
Opal 2018.JPG

Two of my hunting dogs were "left overs." My first Lab was chocolate which back in the sixties was an undesirable characteristic. Anything but black was often destroyed. We had just lost a pup out of the same bitch and the breeder let us have Cocoa, a genetic throwback accident, for the price of shots and feed. About $50 as I recall. She was a great dog and being my first we learned the ropes of bird hunting together ... very easily. My present Fr Britt was picked up when someone backed out on an order. So I didn't get to choose. But somehow I still wound up with the prettiest pup in the litter. I think the breeder rigged that since he knew the reason I was after another dog (just lost my wife and son). Puppy (aka Coral) has been great ... with no pointer training for her or me. She wasn't cheap - $800 nine years ago - but has probably been the cheapest to maintain. I don't think she's ever been to the vet for anything but shots.

Moral of the story: you are less likely to encounter genetic issues with a crossbreed (though they can still crop up). What kind of crossbreed? I think I would stay away from the "doodle" dogs. Not impressed with the ones I have been around. They seem to be colorless personality and not a few have been downright scatterbrained. The Lab-GSP crosses are sometimes a bit too wound up for my taste and they tend to lack the Lab's insulating layer of fur for waterfowl hunting. Don't believe I have seen a Lab-English setter cross but sounds interesting.

Personally, I would advise you to keep shopping for a purebred Lab. Wait till late spring or early summer when the market should be easier (later in the year and less likely to have competing bids from hunters wanting to use the pup this fall). I can almost guarantee you that a Lab pup will not require expensive professional training unless you are thinking of competition ... and obviously you aren't. All you need is a good obedience foundation established from living in the home and instinct should do the rest in the field. Labs are known for their eagerness to please and pliability. They are the definition of "bullet proof." Fortunately, the old hip problems from early to mid 20th century are relatively rare today. I haven't encountered hip dysplasia in a Lab for maybe forty years. Epilepsy seems to be the up and coming concern in both Labs and goldens.
 
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golfer said:
So do you have insurance on your pet? If so which pet insurance route did you go?
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Many of those pet insurance plans are a rip off. Not much different than the human ones in US. They should call them innovative-ways-to-escape-paying-anything plans. Unless the dog is an extremely valuable breeding asset, I don't see any benefit in paying insurance premiums every month.

Re: Annual dogfood bills: Anyone who can feed a dog on $150/year must own a teacup poodle! My two dogs go through a twenty dollar bag of relatively cheap food about every ten days. Ellie is <70 lbs and Puppy is about 38 lbs. Not big dogs by any means.
 
What's your budget and what do you plan on hunting primarily?

I hunted for years with a border collie mutt I found abandoned by sheep herders. He's hunted and retrieved ducks, pheasant, quail, grouse, only thing I can't get him to retrieve is a goose.

If your open to spending more in the realm of 600-700 dollars I can refer you to a good Llewellyn Setter breeder. I'm very happy with the two dogs we've got from them. I'll admit, they're not the greatest cold weather dogs and not the greatest retrievers, but their noses and ability to hold a point more than make up for that with the hunting that I primarily do.
 
BT_NVhunter said:
So I’m looking for a bird dog but not a man who can go out and drop 12-1500 dollars on a pup and then go cover all the training expenses. I’m looking for ideas on what to look for I noticed quite a few pups of mix breed that I could possibly afford, has anyone had experience with mix pups and training or anyone that may be in an affordable range for a pup?
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I hate to say this, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

One of the hardest things in life if watching a hunting dog get hip dysplasia.

The dog wants to hunt, but is physically unable too.

Getting a dog that the parents are hunters, the parents have good genetics, and the parents are not bred over and over and over again to produce as many puppies as they can is the way to go.

It will save you in the long run to get a good dog from a better breeder.

There are so many shady dog breeders out there that you have to do your research and call references.

There are people that breed the bitch - back to back to back to back - Just to get as many puppies out of her.

There are people that see their neighbor has a lab and they have a lab, so that is all the thought that goes into having a litter.

These days they seem to be mixing poodles with everything and the genetics are more of a lottery than a science.


As far as options if you do not want an expensive dog, but want a quality dog:

I would look for someone moving to a place where they can't take a dog too. It is a cheap and easy way to get a good dog.

Someone who has a dog that is from a breeder that is in most cases under-exercised and thus too much to handle. You could find these dogs at shelters and with a training program, they would be just as good as another dog. The previous owner just did not know what they were getting into.

Contact breeders - because sometimes they have dogs that they will sell at a discount. One pup from the litter I got my GWP from was born with a bad coat and the breeder was not going to sell him, because it was not up to his standard. However, someone bartered with him to get the dog. Also, Breeders may not have a pup for you, but can point you to another breeder that may have a dog.

If you are going to pay for training on a hunting dog, then you are probably going to be up on the normal hunting dog game for most folks.
 
I'll add that pet insurance is a waste of money,, if you can afford to self insure. And if you can't afford that,,,,I'd think twice about taking on a hunting dog.

I have three horses in addition to the dogs I own. So, yes, I have vet bills from time to time.

Animals are far different then humans. You don't pour money into their care,,,no matter what, no matter the prognosis. You make a judgement if faced with a sizable expense.
 
406dn said:
I'll add that pet insurance is a waste of money,, if you can afford to self insure. And if you can't afford that,,,,I'd think twice about taking on a hunting dog.

I have three horses in addition to the dogs I own. So, yes, I have vet bills from time to time.

Animals are far different then humans. You don't pour money into their care,,,no matter what, no matter the prognosis. You make a judgement if faced with a sizable expense.
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We saved money on our bird dog with health insurance. She broke her foot and three toes, got deathly sick, and tore her chest to shreds, all in the first few years, all were after hours issues. Had we not had health insurance I would have had to put her down. We dropped it as she got older.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
As far as options if you do not want an expensive dog, but want a quality dog:

I would look for someone moving to a place where they can't take a dog too. It is a cheap and easy way to get a good dog. Or a good way to wind up with someone else's problem. People like you and I may be able to recognize the difference. Someone less experienced not so much. A dog is in a large part molded by the first year. If it has been molded poorly, it is often very difficult to reshape.

Someone who has a dog that is from a breeder that is in most cases under-exercised and thus too much to handle. You could find these dogs at shelters and with a training program, they would be just as good as another dog. The previous owner just did not know what they were getting into. Sounds too much like trying to fix something that's been screwed up or is genetically screwed up.

Contact breeders - because sometimes they have dogs that they will sell at a discount. ... Also, Breeders may not have a pup for you, but can point you to another breeder that may have a dog. Good point. I found my Fr Britt through another breeder who had just sold out her advertised litter.

If you are going to pay for training on a hunting dog, then you are probably going to be up on the normal hunting dog game for most folks. I have never paid out a cent for training any of my dogs and they have all been good to fantastic hunters. Fr Britt is poor at retreiving and maybe some special training early on would have made a difference but I doubt it. Not as long as she was working with Labs anyway.
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See my thoughts to your thoughts in bold above.
 
Wow thanks didn’t even know animal insurance was a thing (outside of show animals and live stock/horses)
 
OntarioHunter said:
The best dog I will probably ever own was a Lab-golden cross that cost me $35. Yep, thirty-five bucks. I met the mother and the gal who owned her (golden was her mom's dog). I knew instantly Ethyl (= premium gas in the old days) was special. And she was, in every way, at home, at someone else's home, and in the field. When I had to go out of town on coaching trips the other teachers would fight over who would get to take care of her. She was for all appearances a small black Lab. A guided missile at all times, at work or leisure. No health issues at all that I can recall. She died suddenly and almost instantly at age 11 for unknown reason. Just fell over. We should all be so lucky.

The late great Opal who died of cancer two years ago this May (also age eleven) was a non-papered Lab I picked out of a Great Falls newspaper on impulse during a business trip. After viewing the pups for twenty minutes I told the HS girl selling them that though $220 was almost a ridiculous price for a dog without papers (her dad simply never bothered getting them for the mother), I would write her a cheque for THAT PUP if she still had it when I came back through in three days. I got to see the mother and though not overly impressed I knew this pup was special. The father, a big registered black male, was just a few miles away and I was invited to visit but declined. It wasn't necessary. Within just three months Opal was doing it all - pointing, flushing, and retreiving uplands! She wasn't much bigger then than the roosters she was picking up.
View attachment 169591

Two of my hunting dogs were "left overs." My first Lab was chocolate which back in the sixties was an undesirable characteristic. Anything but black was often destroyed. We had just lost a pup out of the same bitch and the breeder let us have Cocoa, a genetic throwback accident, for the price of shots and feed. About $50 as I recall. She was a great dog and being my first we learned the ropes of bird hunting together ... very easily. My present Fr Britt was picked up when someone backed out on an order. So I didn't get to choose. But somehow I still wound up with the prettiest pup in the litter. I think the breeder rigged that since he knew the reason I was after another dog (just lost my wife and son). Puppy (aka Coral) has been great ... with no pointer training for her or me. She wasn't cheap - $800 nine years ago - but has probably been the cheapest to maintain. I don't think she's ever been to the vet for anything but shots.

Moral of the story: you are less likely to encounter genetic issues with a crossbreed (though they can still crop up). What kind of crossbreed? I think I would stay away from the "doodle" dogs. Not impressed with the ones I have been around. They seem to be colorless personality and not a few have been downright scatterbrained. The Lab-GSP crosses are sometimes a bit too wound up for my taste and they tend to lack the Lab's insulating layer of fur for waterfowl hunting. Don't believe I have seen a Lab-English setter cross but sounds interesting.

Personally, I would advise you to keep shopping for a purebred Lab. Wait till late spring or early summer when the market should be easier (later in the year and less likely to have competing bids from hunters wanting to use the pup this fall). I can almost guarantee you that a Lab pup will not require expensive professional training unless you are thinking of competition ... and obviously you aren't. All you need is a good obedience foundation established from living in the home and instinct should do the rest in the field. Labs are known for their eagerness to please and pliability. They are the definition of "bullet proof." Fortunately, the old hip problems from early to mid 20th century are relatively rare today. I haven't encountered hip dysplasia in a Lab for maybe forty years. Epilepsy seems to be the up and coming concern in both Labs and goldens.
Click to expand...
 
OntarioHunter said:
The best dog I will probably ever own was a Lab-golden cross that cost me $35. Yep, thirty-five bucks. I met the mother and the gal who owned her (golden was her mom's dog). I knew instantly Ethyl (= premium gas in the old days) was special. And she was, in every way, at home, at someone else's home, and in the field. When I had to go out of town on coaching trips the other teachers would fight over who would get to take care of her. She was for all appearances a small black Lab. A guided missile at all times, at work or leisure. No health issues at all that I can recall. She died suddenly and almost instantly at age 11 for unknown reason. Just fell over. We should all be so lucky.

The late great Opal who died of cancer two years ago this May (also age eleven) was a non-papered Lab I picked out of a Great Falls newspaper on impulse during a business trip. After viewing the pups for twenty minutes I told the HS girl selling them that though $220 was almost a ridiculous price for a dog without papers (her dad simply never bothered getting them for the mother), I would write her a cheque for THAT PUP if she still had it when I came back through in three days. I got to see the mother and though not overly impressed I knew this pup was special. The father, a big registered black male, was just a few miles away and I was invited to visit but declined. It wasn't necessary. Within just three months Opal was doing it all - pointing, flushing, and retreiving uplands! She wasn't much bigger then than the roosters she was picking up.
View attachment 169591

Two of my hunting dogs were "left overs." My first Lab was chocolate which back in the sixties was an undesirable characteristic. Anything but black was often destroyed. We had just lost a pup out of the same bitch and the breeder let us have Cocoa, a genetic throwback accident, for the price of shots and feed. About $50 as I recall. She was a great dog and being my first we learned the ropes of bird hunting together ... very easily. My present Fr Britt was picked up when someone backed out on an order. So I didn't get to choose. But somehow I still wound up with the prettiest pup in the litter. I think the breeder rigged that since he knew the reason I was after another dog (just lost my wife and son). Puppy (aka Coral) has been great ... with no pointer training for her or me. She wasn't cheap - $800 nine years ago - but has probably been the cheapest to maintain. I don't think she's ever been to the vet for anything but shots.

Moral of the story: you are less likely to encounter genetic issues with a crossbreed (though they can still crop up). What kind of crossbreed? I think I would stay away from the "doodle" dogs. Not impressed with the ones I have been around. They seem to be colorless personality and not a few have been downright scatterbrained. The Lab-GSP crosses are sometimes a bit too wound up for my taste and they tend to lack the Lab's insulating layer of fur for waterfowl hunting. Don't believe I have seen a Lab-English setter cross but sounds interesting.

Personally, I would advise you to keep shopping for a purebred Lab. Wait till late spring or early summer when the market should be easier (later in the year and less likely to have competing bids from hunters wanting to use the pup this fall). I can almost guarantee you that a Lab pup will not require expensive professional training unless you are thinking of competition ... and obviously you aren't. All you need is a good obedience foundation established from living in the home and instinct should do the rest in the field. Labs are known for their eagerness to please and pliability. They are the definition of "bullet proof." Fortunately, the old hip problems from early to mid 20th century are relatively rare today. I haven't encountered hip dysplasia in a Lab for maybe forty years. Epilepsy seems to be the up and coming concern in both Labs and goldens.
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Thanks let me ask you did you train your lab to point or did he have the natural instinct to do so?
 
I am no fan of Ducks Unlimited after the stunt they pulled with their Bozeman staff outdoors writer who was canned for speaking out against a Montana McMansion eastern transplant gamehog ... who happened to be a former national board member. However, you might consider checking out one of the local chapter's banquets or website for contacts. Those guys are always in touch with what's going on with local breeding. Pheasants Forever is a similar organization but doubt they would be much active in the Reno area?
BT_NVhunter said:
Thanks let me ask you did you train your lab to point or did he have the natural instinct to do so?
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Opal did it naturally IF she could see the bird and IF it didn't move. And she would not break even if I told her too. Funny thing is the older Lab would back her points and she wouldn't break either. I had to flush the birds myself. All of it natural. But again, the bird had to be in sight and stay put.

My current five year-old black Lab is a fantastic pointing dog. All on her own. The first two years she wasn't good for much but company ... until I was forced to hunt her alone one day. Wow! The really great thing is she works extremely close. It's much more fun to watch a dog working next to you rather than in the next zipcode. And for late season birds especially, a close working dog is definitely more productive. By the middle of November public land wild roosters simply will not hold more than a minute ... at most! You'll be SOL trying to keep close enough to a rangey pointing dog for a shot. So I have the unbeatable combination of both the Lab's close working traits and a consistent pointing dog. And of course there's the Lab's unbeatable disposition. If Ellie had never amounted to a hill of beans in the field - and after two years that seemed a real possibility - I would never have been able to get rid of her (certainly not shoot her like a previous poster on this forum!). For a Lab she is a bit "wound up" but it's okay. She's certainly the happiest "funnest" dog I've ever owned. As long as she gets the job done I can put up with some exuberance (truth be told, "getting the job done" was ALWAYS second to companionship). The difference between Opal and Ellie is Ellie will stay put till I arrive, even if the bird moves. I am sure most of the time she can't see the bird she's pointing (I think she usually hears them). If the bird moves she goes into stealth mode till she can find and point it again. She hunts like a cat ... like a true pointing dog. Very amazing to watch this flusher black Lab acting like a speckled pointer.
 
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bullbugle307 said:
What's your budget and what do you plan on hunting primarily?

I hunted for years with a border collie mutt I found abandoned by sheep herders. He's hunted and retrieved ducks, pheasant, quail, grouse, only thing I can't get him to retrieve is a goose.
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That's pretty much me, too. I wanted a hunting dog. My wife wanted a "cute dog." While I researched Brittany breeders, she drove 2.5 hours away and paid $375 for a mutt puppy. Accidental breeding of somebody's border collie/Aussie to the neighbor's Springer. Any way you slice it, she way overpaid for the dog. :)

What I've learned is that if a dog is cooperative and wants to hunt, you'll do just fine whether they're fancy purebred or not (at least in my experience with a flushing dog). I'm probably missing a "premium level" of performance, but I think I do above average in the areas I hunt. For a dog that is primarily a housepet and occasionally a hunter, I would have bought a lot of potential I would never have used if I had bought a purebred hunting dog. I think of myself as a realist. ;)

QQ
 
OntarioHunter said:
My current five year-old black Lab is a fantastic pointing dog. All on her own. The first two years she wasn't good for much but company ... until I was forced to hunt her alone one day. Wow! The really great thing is she works extremely close. It's much more fun to watch a dog working next to you rather than in the next zipcode. And for late season birds especially, a close working dog is definitely more productive. By the middle of November public land wild roosters simply will not hold more than a minute ... at most! You'll be SOL trying to keep close enough to a rangey pointing dog for a shot.
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That is not my experience. I have many fond memories of late season hunts for pheasants. If the conditions were good. Like not sub zero, cloudy and windy,,,I'd make the trip to hunt late season roosters. More than once I got possession limits on roosters in three days. Most of the time I'd turn a dog loose an hour or so before sunset. That was the nicest part of the day and the birds held very well in the areas they wanted to roost.

One year my brother thought a hen one of my dogs pointed had frozen to death. He reached down to pick it up and she flew out of his hands.

A pointing dog is a force multiplier. Its great advantage is that it covers ground you don't have to. Yes there are days it doesn't come together, but when it does,,,you've got a lasting memory.
 
Quit a lot to discuss if you're looking to save money with the dog. My first answer is what has been stated already, initial cost is not going to be greatest expense. Second what are your expectations, what kind of hunting, all around gun dog or specialist? My first dog in college was a mix breed lab. I read THE book, Game Dog by Richard Wolters and trained an exceptional retriever and upland dog. I didn't know anything about pure breed or genetics and neither did the dog. I had tons of time and enthusiasm and worked with the dog daily. So it can be done, but I don't recommend it.
My suggestion is to figure out what you want from the dog. You don't need a $1500 dog to sit, stay, come, and go get the duck.
 
TWC said:
Thanks to COVID, people being locked up and the sudden need for a dog, Labrador puppies have been going for £3-4k each in the UK. That's not even health tested, hip scored parents or from working lines, just people breeding to make some money.
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When I lived in Suffolk (2007-2008) we were on a farm and really wanted to get a dog. Prices even back then were north of 2000 GBP with the exchange rate at 1 GBP= $2.12 there was no way that was happening. We tried to adopt a rescue but they wouldn't let us as we weren't "permanent" UK residents....even the KILL shelters FFS. It was a bummer because that place would have been awesome for a dog with all the space to go along with pheasant and partridge.
 
406dn said:
That is not my experience. I have many fond memories of late season hunts for pheasants. If the conditions were good. Like not sub zero, cloudy and windy,,,I'd make the trip to hunt late season roosters. More than once I got possession limits on roosters in three days. Most of the time I'd turn a dog loose an hour or so before sunset. That was the nicest part of the day and the birds held very well in the areas they wanted to roost.

One year my brother thought a hen one of my dogs pointed had frozen to death. He reached down to pick it up and she flew out of his hands.

A pointing dog is a force multiplier. Its great advantage is that it covers ground you don't have to. Yes there are days it doesn't come together, but when it does,,,you've got a lasting memory.
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Yes, that "witching hour" before dark is best. The birds are moving, calling to each other (to group up for protection before roost), and they usually hold better.

Twelve years ago I could leave from work at five with my <1 yr Lab pup and have a limit just about any day I wanted. But it is not like that now! The last four years numbers have been way down. Publicly accessible private ranches/farms are still relatively abundant but they have changed too. More land being plowed under. The drought + poor beef prices has led to more cattle being held from the market and moved onto cover ground earlier, stomping/eating it bald. Hunting pressure has also increased as more land in other parts of the state are being posted. Back in the good old days (five to twelve years ago) I regularly shot rooster doubles and daily limits. Until this fall I haven't had an opportunity for a rooster double since 2016. I had one chance this year but had to pass because I didn't dare take my eyes off the spot in the tulies where the first bird fell. Typically I hunt Montana pheasants six to eight weeks every fall so I know the country and I know the birds. Until 2019 I usually had three good dogs working. And I don't miss many shots either ... because I shoot a LOT of trap, skeet, and clays. But these days it's just not the same game it once was. Getting a limit on public land has been a lot harder, especially the past four years.
 
The very best dog I have owned was a LAB/GSP. cost me $55 and was easy to train (If you do your part). If the parents are great hunters and everything heath whys Is up to date go for it.
 
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