Bill allowing crossbows during MT archery

PrairieHunter

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I believe WY is the only state that you can use a crossbow to hunt elk during an archery season. You can't compare hunting whitetail in a deer stand to calling in elk on the ground.

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I didn't compare the 2, and who said this just pertained to elk??? You, certainty was not me.

I was under the impression it would be for whitetail, mule deer, elk, antelope, etc... just like Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and Wyoming.
 
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RobG

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So far not any of the 26 states who allow crossbows have shortened the season that I am aware of, an amazingly 2 have actually lengthened seasons (NE and OH). So at this point that argument does not seem to hold water based on the history of other states who allow crossbows including next door neighbor WY.

But if someone does have an example of crossbows leading to a shortened archery season I'd love to see it.
Actually, I think you have identified the issue. As Buzz says, hunters are going to resist restricting themselves until they shoot every damn animal out there. In fact, because of recent advances in crossbows, WY commissioners revisited the question but they chose to keep everything the same. If we don't draw the line now there is no going back.
 

wllm1313

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I didn't compare the 2, and who said this just pertained to elk??? You, certainty was not me. I was under the impression it would be for whitetail, mule deer, elk, antelope, etc... just like Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and Wyoming.
You said "not any of the 26 states" only 1 of the 26 is a western state, and typically those hunting mule deer, elk, whitetail, etc in the west use different tactics because of the topography. (You could probably through in Kentucky as well as their elk hunt is probably more of a "western style" hunt.

My point being that it's pretty hard to say what the effects of crossbow hunting in the general archery season would be based on what has happened in other states because the regional differences in hunting styles/tactics/draw systems/herd goals/ etc are so different. Perhaps effects would be negligible, perhaps they would be significant.

As noted on another thread, western hunts are becoming much much more popular while eastern hunter participation is declining. In the west I think we need to limit the harvest while increase it in the east, I'm in the camp that CO should make all archery hunts limited, and in some units make the mid sept rut hunts traditional archery only.
 

tjones

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But if someone does have an example of crossbows leading to a shortened archery season I'd love to see it.

It could be something as simple as a large number of Montana bowhunters and rifle hunters just don't want the damn thing included in archery season.

Crossbows to Phunter seems to = parking along the interstate to TG.

carry on.
 
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PrairieHunter

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Actually, I think you have identified the issue. As Buzz says, hunters are going to resist restricting themselves until they shoot every damn animal out there. In fact, because of recent advances in crossbows, WY commissioners revisited the question but they chose to keep everything the same. If we don't draw the line now there is no going back.
As easy as this is to blame hunters IMO this is really about manufacturers as well. They are the ones who lobby for this kind of legislation in many cases. Also why a 90 year old can drive his 60 ft long motor coach pulling a 20 ft trailer 80 miles an hour down the interstate with no special license whatsoever. Manufacturers just see dollar signs. I'm sure they talk about Montana in their sales meetings and talk about how much they could make there or in Colorado.
 

PrairieHunter

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It could be something as simple as a large number of bowhunters and rifle hunters just don't want the damn thing included in archery season.

Crossbows to Phunter seems to = parking along the interstate to TG.

carry on.
LOL, nice try, but fail.

Some folks just don't handle change well.

Notice I am not telling anyone what to do like TG. I don't even hunt archery season, but if it results in less rifle hunters, so be it.

You took a position of saying that the season could be shortened if crossbows are allowed. Then you couldn't come up with any examples and I and others pointed out that harvest numbers did not change much and that 2 states lengthened seasons.
Then you got mad and tried to take conversations about crossbows personal. So predictable, and so pathetic.

But if you come up with an example of a shortened archery season due to crossbows I'd love to see it. TIA
 
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RobG

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As easy as this is to blame hunters IMO this is really about manufacturers as well. They are the ones who lobby for this kind of legislation in many cases. Also why a 90 year old can drive his 60 ft long motor coach pulling a 20 ft trailer 80 miles an hour down the interstate with no special license whatsoever. Manufacturers just see dollar signs. I'm sure they talk about Montana in their sales meetings and talk about how much they could make there or in Colorado.
I agree, the crossbow manufacturers are pushing this because they see big dollar signs, especially as compound technology reaches the physical limits.

rg
 

VAspeedgoat

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Surely you jest with respect to traditional muzzleloaders. I guarantee they will more than hold their own in that regard.

I find it interesting that people here think crossbows will "redefine" archery. Did you think that about compound bows? Archery "redefined" 30-40 yrs ago or more.
I understand your premise but I would have to say 3" groups at 100 yds would redefine archery hunting if it is as easy to attain as that manufacturer seems to think. 100yds for a compound is a controversial topic and heavily debated. This would rule out the argument that crossbows have no more effective range argument.
 

Mudranger1

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I understand your premise but I would have to say 3" groups at 100 yds would redefine archery hunting if it is as easy to attain as that manufacturer seems to think. 100yds for a compound is a controversial topic and heavily debated. This would rule out the argument that crossbows have no more effective range argument.
To me this is just all propaganda...its like saying anyone with a CDS can shoot animals at 1000 yards. Come on now be realistic. A compound bow is capable of doing that if rigged up on a stand. Just like I would assume crossbows are now.
 

elkduds

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About 4 years ago I got a medical exemption to use xbow during archery. Due to right shoulder degeneration and arthritis, I can no longer draw a 30# recurve. Experience has shown that optics allowed on xbows can keep them about as effective as compounds w peep sights, or can make them 80+ yd weapons if mounted w magnifying scopes. Current CO law allows red dot or 1x nonmagnifying scopes for medically permitted xbows during archery seasons. You can get another disability permit for a magnifying scope if you have certain visual disabilities. I will be upgrading the open sight on my xbow to a red dot, w the rule change.
 

Witherall13

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For disable and over 65 is how a lot of states started I’ve also read about states that allowed crossbows only during firearm seasons in the past. I’m on the fence with this, yes tags are sold dumping money into states and conservation 👍🏻 On the other end of this conversation every idiot who’s seen duck dynasty has all the sudden become a “hunter” now you’ve got folks that don’t know the difference between deer and cattle out slinging bolts all over the place. I’ve seen it mentioned on hunttalk before and I agree hunting has changed, when I was growing up my old man taught us to hunt but we weren’t “hunters” we were sportsmen I didn’t just learn how to hunt and harvest an animal I was taught about each species and their habitats what it took to conserve both animal and habitat the importance of management the importance of restraint, my pops always said after a long winter “if you think it was rough on us, how do you think the deer got along?” My uncle would leave some standing beans, corn and alfalfa for the fall and winter, roll out a couple bales of hay in the back wood lot keep water troughs pumping and thawed so our wildlife had something to help them along. We may cut back on does harvested or set a restriction with in the family on how many deer could be harvested, all this with the wildlife and conservation in mind.
Fast forward 25 years and it’s all about how it will look hanging in the den or at the office, a lot of these crossbow hunters see them being legal as just another chance at a trophy “well shit the manufacturer says this joker shoots 370 FPS and the commercial showed them shooting 100 yards with one, hell so can I” in my opinion when a lot of folks pick up a crossbow they set ethics aside. Just because it has a butt stock like a rifle sure doesn’t mean it shoots like one.
I bought a crossbow for my sons to start out with my middle boy harvested his first deer with it last year and I was damn proud, but there’s a big difference between a child disabled person or senior and a 35 year old healthy fit man or woman using one because “well I saw this on tv and just had to try it”

End of my rant
 
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Scott85

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I can understand the adverison to maybe the air gun that fires an arrow but not a crossbow. I don’t feel that a crossbow offers any real advantage over a compound bow. I also think that if it even gets one more person hunting then it should be allowed. But at the end of the day it’s their state and their rules.
 

Straight Arrow

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Last I remember it died
Yes, it was again (as during many other sessions) tabled ... for the plethora of facts and opinions expressed on the many previous pages of this thread.

(Please ... before taking up the debate again, read the previous posts and don't let this become another "redumbdant" rehash.)
 

Scott85

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Yes.

1. Range. Contrary to what people think the crossbow is a 100 yard killing machine. While the range of an avarage shooter can be extended maybe 20 yards. Extended ranges bring a whole other debate and that is what is the ethical distance for an animal to be taken with any animal.

2. Accuracy. Advantage is clearly in the crossbow’s favor but is this a bad thing? There are groups of hunters and I would even think it would be safe to assume that some are even on this forum that might shoot their weapons once or twice a year. Don’t we owe it to the animal to make a clean and ethical shot where the animal is dead before it drops. I’ve seen far too many people shoot a bow who would be lucky to hit a paper plate 5 times at 20 yards but these same idiots fling a few arrows before the start of the season and they feel they are ready for the season. Using a crossbow doesn’t negate the practice and shouldn’t be used in lieu of practice.

3. Quick follow on shots. Clear winner is a regular bow. It’s possible to get off a couple of arrows with a compound bow to every bolt fired from a crossbow.

4. Weight. Who the hell wants to carry a heavy ass crossbow anyhow? I would much rather carry my 4 pound compound than a 9 pound crossbow.

That’s just 4 things that I’m my mind I find no clear cut advantage for using a crossbow. I guess it once upon a time it was a debate about compound and traditional bows.
 

Greyman

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Hunting with a crossbow during archery season has been legal here in Texas for awhile now. The same arguments posted here were also brought up prior to them being legal. As a guy who hunts with a recurve, I even made some of those arguments. After time passed though, I realized that crossbows didn't ruin archery hunting. In fact, our deer herd is getting stronger, not because of crossbow hunting but in spite of it. Crossbow hunting just hasn't made that big of an impact on deer populations, even on public land.
 
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