VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Context, agin. That one sentence was about British colonies. In other areas I said US played a big role in “carrying the banner of constitutional democracy”.
Biden Plan to End Online Ammo Sales
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Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
It's been a good read.
Thanks to a few knowledgeable folks for the awesome discussion and history clarification.
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
Randy ( @Big Fin ) should take notice of a good job from everyone keeping emotions in check. As he requested... 
Justabirdwatcher
Well-known member
back from who?Somebody asked me today what it thought big was gonna happen in July since something bad seems to have happened each month this year. I told them we were gonna remind the world what July 4th was really about by taking the country back.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
You are organizing get out the vote campaigns? Writing letters to your politicians? Running for office yourself? Crafting useful legislation? Engaging fellow Americans you disagree with in constructive dialog? Drafting well considered amicus briefs on key court cases? Helping fix up underfunded schools in poor neighborhoods? Giving your hard working employees raises and equity in your business? Helping an immigrant prepare for their citizenship exam?Somebody asked me today what it thought big was gonna happen in July since something bad seems to have happened each month this year. I told them we were gonna remind the world what July 4th was really about by taking the country back.
Or is this more silly “armed insurrection” BS?
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Nope, point well understood.
beginnerhunter
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Like it or not we're probably getting gun control. But I think it bears repeating, since most of the posters here are at least above the median income, that new gun laws will likely be unequally enforced against minority and lower income people (as they already are, Google it). If you suddenly need licensure or a record of a background check for every gun or round in your possession, most of us here could work it out. But that isn't the case for a lot of folks around the country. Often times those illegal gun charges get compounded on other charges (or so I've read, a lawyer or prosecutor can chime in if I'm wrong).
At a time when we're talking about minimizing police interaction and laws that disproportionately affect minorities and poor people, we should consider how more gun control might actually increase those bad outcomes.
At a time when we're talking about minimizing police interaction and laws that disproportionately affect minorities and poor people, we should consider how more gun control might actually increase those bad outcomes.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Well said.
El Jason
Well-known member
I think one could easily argue all laws are disproportionately applied to lower income people (remember the wage gap for minorities from an earlier thread), and hence minorities included as a result.
Shangobango
Well-known member
I obviously don’t have the answers to all that is wrong in this country. I fell like we have the best form of government on Earth. Is it perfect, of course not. The Decleration of Independence and The Constitution laid the frame work and it is up to us to live up to it and I feel like in a lot of ways we are doing a better job of it as time goes by. However, we are also straying away from the ideals of our founding documents in some ways.
Each amendment of the Constitution was put there for a reason. I feel the 2nd Amendment was a direct response to Britain confiscating weapons to quell resistance to their tyrannical rule. With that historical context in mind it should be obvious that the watering down of the 2nd Amendment will have long term detrimental consequences when it comes to The People’s right to self government and self determination. Plain as the nose on my face if you ask me. That’s just my opinion.
As far as the current political landscape in the country and the crap candidates that we seem to have nowadays, I believe it is just a symptom of the dumbing down and spoiled nature of the American population as a whole.
I am not a fearful person but I say with no shame that I am scared for the future of the nation. I only see one outcome to the current political strife that we are seeing and I hope and pray that I am wrong. I fear if something doesn’t change I won’t be.
“ United we stand, divided we fall”.
Now I will continue binge watching “ The Hunting Public” on YouTube with my spoiled American butt as I believe I made it through everything from MeatEater and Newberg.
Each amendment of the Constitution was put there for a reason. I feel the 2nd Amendment was a direct response to Britain confiscating weapons to quell resistance to their tyrannical rule. With that historical context in mind it should be obvious that the watering down of the 2nd Amendment will have long term detrimental consequences when it comes to The People’s right to self government and self determination. Plain as the nose on my face if you ask me. That’s just my opinion.
As far as the current political landscape in the country and the crap candidates that we seem to have nowadays, I believe it is just a symptom of the dumbing down and spoiled nature of the American population as a whole.
I am not a fearful person but I say with no shame that I am scared for the future of the nation. I only see one outcome to the current political strife that we are seeing and I hope and pray that I am wrong. I fear if something doesn’t change I won’t be.
“ United we stand, divided we fall”.
Now I will continue binge watching “ The Hunting Public” on YouTube with my spoiled American butt as I believe I made it through everything from MeatEater and Newberg.
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geetar
Well-known member
I don’t see this going anywhere good. We obviously have differing opinions and that’s ok with me. I like freedom of speech I made my comments you made yours and I’ll just leave it that and go no further.
azelkhntr
Well-known member
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- 456
You’re a kook bub. You spew all that on the geetar which has nothing to do whatsoever with what he posted? Sick.
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Fullquiver
Well-known member
Yes I would say that Canada nor Finland are free.. There are no guarantees left of free speech in our neighbors to the north. I am not exactly familiar with the laws in Finland but I highly doubt that any resemblance of "freedom" in most Northern European countries resembles what our freedoms look like..
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
#sarcasm
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
So, do you have any explanation why the conservative/libertarian CATO institute characterizes both as freer than the US?
Do you have any personal experiences with living in those counties or speaking with citizens of those countries to base your conclusions on?
Any of our HT Canadian friends care to comment on their supposed lack of freedom?
Shangobango
Well-known member
We seem to agree on a lot of things but this is not one of them. I don’t need constitutional jurisprudence to tell me what the 1st and 2nd Amendments mean. I have basic reading comprehension skills.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I appreciate that you read them and have your personal view of what they say. I too have a reading of both of them (which is probably not that far from yours - as said before, I am pro Heller and big on freedom of speech and religion). I also know a bunch of folks who read them differently. They are just as able and earnest as you and I. So, who is to say which of the 2-4 readings of the 2A and countless readings of the 1A are right?
If we are to be a “nation of laws, not men” (a basic principle of many Founders) we have to find a way to have one binding answer, we can’t all have our own. There is no way to run a lawful society if every citizen retains the personal and absolute right to live by their own personal definitions of the constitution or statutes.
For the last 217 years the answer for when folks disagree is that the final answer is provided by the Supreme Court (and in many cases they disagree within themselves). So, if you are committed to the rule of law then Supreme Court jurisprudence is required to understand the meets and bounds of our constitutional rights. It has proven an imperfect system, but still the best humanity has been able to come up with so far in my opinion.
Shangobango
Well-known member
There is nothing you said here that I can disagree with.
I guess for example my point was something along the lines of that we shouldn’t have needed The 14th Amendment to abolish slavery because “all men are created equal” and “liberty and justice for all”, just adjusted to say that we should not have needed Heller to explain “shall not be infringed”.
I guess I am just too simple.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I wouldn't say that. Many of us wish for a simpler way through our many current disagreements, unfortunately a simple and universal reading of the constitution has not proven possible at any time in its 231 years (heck, there are plenty of writings that showed the actual drafters themselves didn't fully agree on some of it at the time of ratification).
And just for clarity's sake, neither, “all men are created equal” or “liberty and justice for all” are in the constitution. And the original constitution cleary identified slaves as non-citizens so the 14thA was necessary. But I agree with the sentiment that it should not be necessary in a just and moral society.
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Looks like folks in NYC better hope that 2A stays strong. They will likely need it.
New York City Lawmakers Approve $1 Billion Cut From NYPD Budget; Protesters Say It Still Falls Short
City Council Speaker Corey Johnson said he stands with the protesters and was also disappointed, saying he is committed to “holding the mayor’s feet on the fire on this and continue to work for reform.”
“I wanted us to go deeper. I wanted us to take larger head count reductions. I wanted a true hiring freeze. I wanted us to cancel addition classes. But this is a budget process that involves the mayor, who would not budge on these items,”
newyork.cbslocal.com
New York City Lawmakers Approve $1 Billion Cut From NYPD Budget; Protesters Say It Still Falls Short
City Council Speaker Corey Johnson said he stands with the protesters and was also disappointed, saying he is committed to “holding the mayor’s feet on the fire on this and continue to work for reform.”
“I wanted us to go deeper. I wanted us to take larger head count reductions. I wanted a true hiring freeze. I wanted us to cancel addition classes. But this is a budget process that involves the mayor, who would not budge on these items,”
New York City Lawmakers Approve $1 Billion Cut From NYPD Budget; Protesters Say It Still Falls Short
Protesters have been demanding cuts to the NYPD's nearly $6 billion spending in favor of education and social services to address he root of what drives people to crime.
newyork.cbslocal.com
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