Bad News for Bozeman Hunters

[belly-deep]

Think it's really a biologist problem for the most part?
The few biologists I've had the chance to talk to seem to have their heads in the right place, but are pretty handcuffed with the way FWP plays politics.

??? Maybe. I don't really know who is making the final call all of the time. It might not be the biologist's fault 100% of the time, but it is the FWP's fault 100% of the time. Either that or they are lying and it really IS the wolves and not liberalized seasons. In that case, I guess the FWP's hands are tied, but they could atleast come out and say that if it is the case.

 

[1_pointer]

SS- While you and I see certain things differently, we do have a LOT of views in common. Keep up the fight! I agree that wolves can be an issue, but all the states that have wolves (or at least problems with them) have very liberal bear/cat seasons yet very few that complain about wolves fill those tags.

Belly Deep- I don't have any knowledge of MT, but I do know that generally about all a biologist can do is make recommendations. Those above their pay grade are the ones that will make the decision.

 

[sweetnectar]

Wolves poach elk 24-7. What a waste.

 

[drahthaar]

Yep, they eat whitetails too. We don't have enough elk to keep the wolves fed, so are pretty hard on our deer.

But the FWP said this year that we weren't seeing many deer because they had given us too many tags last year. ??? Come on, they are getting paid to do this. If they can't see population dives coming a year ahead of time (barring a severe winter kill) what kind of biologists are they? Crappy ones, IMO.

I hope you are writing in or going to the public comment forums. Its worth a shot. The tentative changes came out and there are zero changes for region 1 deer???????. I think they need to be seriously proactive here and cut out the doe season(first two weeks) completely, Ditch all the B tags and take dist 132 out of being able to use those 5 B tags on whitey does on private land, those were meant for 170, but right now you can use them in 132. Ridiculous.

Here we just got slammed with 16 inches of snow, now starting tomorrow it is going to melt down then harden into about 6-8 inches of concrete for the rest of the winter, Sucks to be a deer here in the east valley.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Wolves poach elk 24-7. What a waste.

How is it a waste?

 

[drahthaar]

200 in the Taylor Fork? Holy cow, that sucks. I hunted there a few times when I was at MSU, mostly headed out to Pony, Cardwell, Ennis country and "the porcupine". Are the elk gone from all that country too?
Also used to dink around up Sourdough and Hyalite in between classes. Is there even any elk up in there any more? That is a shame, haven't been down that way for 20 years, to hunt that is, compared to here at the time, it seemed like there was an elk behind every other tree. That is sad, great times used to be had.

 

[The Hedgehog]

The 310 counts include both sides of 191, porcupine also. Wolves are all the way to town. Friend of mine cut 2 worlf tracks on Kirk Hill on Saturday.

 

[Lawnboy]

The 310 counts include both sides of 191, porcupine also. Wolves are all the way to town. Friend of mine cut 2 worlf tracks on Kirk Hill on Saturday.

Last year I cut a group of 6 that were just above Kirk Hill in the clear cut above Hodgeman canyon. That explains why I have about 20 head by my house on the corner of 19th below Kirk Hill. Everyone always says that the elk prefer the timber when wolves are around. I call bull on that. They seem to like the ability to see whats coming down on the open flats. My brother works for the sod farm on South 3rd/Goldenstein. It has been about 5 years in row that they are chasing elk off the sod. When the F&G came out to haze them back up to the mountain They refused to go up. They were shooting some sort of shotgun bullets at them. My bro said that the elk ran to the base of the mountain between Sourdough and Leverich and those elk would not go up onto the Forest. They hit the treeline and then ran East toward Triple Tree staying in the valley. You can't tell me that there isn't something up there that they don't want deal with.

 

[----]

Everyone always says that the elk prefer the timber when wolves are around. I call bull on that. They seem to like the ability to see whats coming down on the open flats.

Exactly my experience. I hunt both wolf and non-wolf areas. Do a tee it almost always seems like the elk bed on traditional north facing lodgepole slopes in the non-wolf areas, and on bald ridgelines and knobs in the wolf areas.

 

[drahthaar]

Hodgeman and Leverich. Hah, keep talking guys, you are taking me back. Interesting for sure Lawnboy.

I haven't witnessed such behavior myself here. In the areas where I get most of my wolf pics, the elk have the ability to head down out of the foothills and out onto the flats in the open valley, but they tend to really head into the thickest of cover. Now, I think the area where you are talking may have more homes closer by than the open area I am talking about, which may keep the wolves at bay. I always had the opinion that they preferred the thick trees and brush because it was harder for the wolves to make a play on any one individual in that thick crap. Just like in the southfork, those 600-800 lb elk can buck that false huckleberry and alder a lot easier than an 80-100 lb wolf, that was their protection. But if they get out in the open they just wouldn't have the endurance to keep running from the wolves. When the heavy wolf sign showed up in the southfork, the elk went up high high high in the alder slides on steep faces, at least thats where we were finding them in bow season.

 

[Lawnboy]

Drahthaar I'm surely no wolf expert but this is what I have personally noticed. I figure the same thing has happened in the Madison. Those elk would make the journey from the park through Taylor's Fork and up and over to the Madison for the winter. Then retrace their path back in the Spring. Since the wolves showed up they stay out in the open flats in the Madison valley. Very few have been making the return visit to the park and Taylors Fork. I always attributed this to the fact that they must feel safer staying out in the open than making their "normal" migration.
Your wolf experience is definitely interesting, just seems different here

 

[drahthaar]

Where ever they end up when the snow gets deep and/or crusted over, they are pretty much screwed either way, that is probably one constant.

 

[sweetnectar]

Right now the only thing you can do to protect your elk hunting whole is get with someone who has a plane and do some wolf...er I mean coyote hunting.

Jose-the cursed wolves leave far too much waste. (sport kills, or eat just a little) Wolves what a waste of elk, time, money, and everything.

 

[Waymore]

I've hunted the Centennial Mountains on and off through the years. (The Centennial Mountains are a remote and beautiful mountain range lying along the Montana-Idaho border near Yellowstone National Park.) It's been a tradition for a few of us huntin buddies to meet up towards end of the season when the weather gets shitty. I don't have a lot of free time- so I go where I know and have been successful. Anyway, every year I see less and less elk and more and more wolf tracks. When the Centennial pack is not feeding on elk, they massacre sheep. Worth rereading if you've read it: http://www.missoulian.com/news/local/article_5ff01772-938f-11de-9aca-001cc4c03286.html The ranchers get compensated (sort of)- organizations and federal funding. The elk get killed. But me, I'm stuck with no elk meat this year, which pisses me off. The point: I guess I'll just find other places to hunt where there are less wolves. See you there.

 

[shoots-straight]

Waymore, although more wolves will replace them the Centennial Pack is no more.
I find elk sneeking up and down creek bottoms in the West Fork of the Bitterroot, or up really high. It's like they use gravity and creek bottoms to help them elude wolves if chased. I hope that the elk learn methods for combating predation. Historically they did.

 

[TheTone]

There are still wolves in the centennials. I had numerous sightings reported to me this fall on the Idaho side, plus saw tracks myself on the Idaho side. There may not be as many as there were, but some are still there.

Elk hunting on the Idaho side seemed to be pretty darn good this year for whatever reason.

 

[Waymore]

Yes, there are still wolves in the Centennials. The official pack might be gone- but perhaps more have moved in. I hunted there the last weekend of the season this year and we had wolf tracks.