B & C Study - 96% Poachers Get Away

[El Jason]

Problem is a poacher doesnt care about getting a licensed revoked - they didnt buy one in the first place.

Not necessarily true. A license helps cover for a lot of folks.

Also, killing something while they are revoked is usually an escalator within the charging/sentencing continuum.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Also, killing something while they are revoked is usually an escalator within the charging/sentencing continuum.

Case in point:

Noble Outdoors Owner Sentenced for Conspiracy to Violate the Lacey Act Involving 114 Illegal Hunts

Dustin Noble, 46, of North Platte, Nebraska, was sentenced on September 4, 2025, in federal court in Lincoln, Nebraska, for Conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act.

www.justice.gov

 

[lastlight]

Not necessarily true. A license helps cover for a lot of folks.

Also, killing something while they are revoked is usually an escalator within the charging/sentencing continuum.

Thank you. Tired of people always saying that! A poachers job is 1000x easier with a hunting license.

 

[KipCarson]

Someone help me out here, I must be missing something. I’m curious just how this study was set up and conducted. If 96% were undetected and criminal got away, how do you even know about them at all? Is it factoring in the rate of unsolved cases, or random surveys recording how many time people saw stuff and didn’t report it or what? At a glance that number seems highly subjective. It doesn’t seem like a population mark recapture type of thing where there can be some hard numbers.

And as mentioned by others, what did they define as poaching? A procedural rule like not having your orange worn properly isn’t even close to actually poaching in a way that takes away from wildlife populations. That’s like equating a seat belt ticket to a hit and run car accident.

Edit* I reread a different article and saw some of the procedures for the survey, but it still seems so highly subjective in my mind to not help me a lot.

 

[El Jason]

Thank you. Tired of people always saying that! A poachers job is 1000x easier with a hunting license.

It’s about as true as the “honest mistake” mythology.

 

[antlerradar]

Not necessarily true. A license helps cover for a lot of folks.

Also, killing something while they are revoked is usually an escalator within the charging/sentencing continuum.

Plus the motivation to poach today is more about the bragging and likes on social media than in the past when it was putting meat on the table. Kind of hard to brag about the buck you shot when your privileges are revoked

 

[antlerradar]

The tip lines are a joke. At least here in Montana. I called it once. Lady on the phone didn’t even know where my town was. I now have the personal cell numbers of our local wardens. mtmuley

A long time ago a poacher from Michigan poached an elk near me, one of the first elk in the country. I believe the reason the case was sealed was he started boasting at the bar back in Michigan and someone called the tip line. Later it was found that his poaching the elk was just the tip of the iceberg of his poaching. @El Jason might remember the details better than me. That being said, I have the wardens card in my wallet and all wardens are told they have the run of the ranch.

 

[mtmuley]

A long time ago a poacher from Michigan poached an elk near me, one of the first elk in the country. I believe the reason the case was sealed was he started boasting at the bar back in Michigan and someone called the tip line. Later it was found that his poaching the elk was just the tip of the iceberg of his poaching. @El Jason might remember the details better than be. That being said, I have the wardens card in my wallet and all wardens are told they have the run of the ranch.

I realize it's probably a budget issue, but having the Tip line based in Helena with people not familiar with the State doesn't work as well as it should. Maybe thing have changed. I have not used Tip-Mont in years. mtmuley

 

[Rainer]

Is their the ability to give the State Troopers the training and ability to enforce the game laws? They clearly would have a much larger budget then any F&G department to enforce these laws

 

[El Jason]

Is their the ability to give the State Troopers the training and ability to enforce the game laws? They clearly would have a much larger budget then any F&G department to enforce these laws

I’m sure those Chargers will be great for responding to calls.

 

[AckleyHunter]

Law enforcement in generally inefficient.

"In 2022, the clearance rate (for murder) was at about 50%, meaning that just half of murders resulted in an arrest and fewer than half result in a conviction."

Trends in Homicide: What You Need to Know - Council on Criminal Justice

This package of data and analysis examines long-term homicide trends in the U.S. It also explores possible explanations for the rise in murder seen in mid-2020 and, in most cities, its subsequent decline.

counciloncj.org

Game violations are largely depedent upon other hunters to report violations.

 

[Borny1]

I haven't read the article, but how do they define poaching? I suppose it could cover the gamut shooting an animal just over a unit boundary and not having a tag for that unit to an organized crime ring.

Exactly. I've had some mishaps and I'll never report them. I accidentally cut 2 and a 1 out for the date instead of 21 on my tag, or something like that and they took my deer and fined me. I was honest with the warden and told him we had a problem. I understand the fine, but take my deer? He told me I should have called him. There's no cell service where I was in eastern MT and I had just gotten on the dirt road to town. I guess I'm a poacher. I'll take my chances if I mess up because I'm not going to self report if I get the same penalty.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here's the study, in case anyone wants to read it before asking questions.

https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/atoms/files/poach_pay_final_report_-_press_conference.pdf?_gl=1*1b5td7s*_gcl_au*MTAxNTEyNTY5MS4xNzU4MDQ1MDcy*_ga*MjY2NzY3ODM1LjE3NTgwNDUwNzI.*_ga_WSELJ82N7Z*czE3NTgwNDUwNzIkbzEkZzAkdDE3NTgwNDUwNzIkajYwJGwwJGgw

 

[brymoore]

Exactly. I've had some mishaps and I'll never report them. I accidentally cut 2 and a 1 out for the date instead of 21 on my tag, or something like that and they took my deer and fined me. I was honest with the warden and told him we had a problem. I understand the fine, but take my deer? He told me I should have called him. There's no cell service where I was in eastern MT and I had just gotten on the dirt road to town. I guess I'm a poacher. I'll take my chances if I mess up because I'm not going to self report if I get the same penalty.

Did you go to court to argue your case?

 

[Irrelevant]

I have unknowingly made several mistakes. the one I consistently made until honestly, quite recently, was keeping evidence of sex attached to the meat. I just defaulted to the head, which apparently doesn't qualify in many areas. I've made a couple of other mistakes. I'm going to call them honest, because I certainly never intended to make a mistake, I simply didn't read the regs closely enough.

 

[Borny1]

Did you go to court to argue your case?

Not for $150 bucks and a dried out deer that hung in a cooler for months. I'd had to have taken off work, drive half way across the state, motel or sleep in my truck, etc.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My opinion and thoughts only, not backed up by any data.

The judicial system is dropping the ball on wildlife crimes, and crimes in general. Many don’t get prosecuted, or get dismissed or deferred, and many simply get lost in the system with nothing to show for them.

The huge problem is lack of reporting. All too often, people know about wildlife crimes that are occurring, but do not turn the offenders in. They either “don’t want to be involved“ or “it’s none of my business“, and they simply look the other way. Then, when the person finally gets caught they’ll say “oh yeah, they’ve been doing this for years“.

I believe it’s an urban legend how many wildlife violations are a mistake. This is a commonly parroted theme, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that there are actually a rather small percentage that are true mistakes. People don’t just forget to tag their deer. They don’t just forget to cut the dates out. They don’t forget that it’s after hours or before hours. They don’t forget, they cross a fence and are on private land. They don’t forget the other side of the road is a different unit they don’t have a permit for. I think this is a bunk excuse, and really has no basis.

I worked with a guy who was a county assistant DA in WI in a past life. The guy is a non-hunter. In conversing about wildlife violations, he mentioned hunters clamoring for stiff penalties for poachers and his attitude suggested that we over-react to such small potatoes as someone illegally killing a deer when they've got murderers, rapists, and child abusers they are dealing with on a daily basis. For someone not really in the hunting space, it seems pretty hard to argue with them that the life of a deer is of significant concern compared to the other heinous stuff in front of them. Especially in eastern states that treat deer like varmints.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The tip lines are a joke. At least here in Montana. I called it once. Lady on the phone didn’t even know where my town was. I now have the personal cell numbers of our local wardens. mtmuley

IIRC the one time i called MT TIP line they had the applicable warden contact me. I met him in person later in the day after I made the call. I think this was in 2019.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

I worked with a guy who was a county assistant DA in WI in a past life. The guy is a non-hunter. In conversing about wildlife violations, he mentioned hunters clamoring for stiff penalties for poachers and his attitude suggested that we over-react to such small potatoes as someone illegally killing a deer when they've got murderers, rapists, and child abusers they are dealing with on a daily basis. For someone not really in the hunting space, it seems pretty hard to argue with them that the life of a deer is of significant concern compared to the other heinous stuff in front of them. Especially in eastern states that treat deer like varmints.

I agree with you that that is a common sentiment, but it's a false equivalence. One can't care about both?

 

[El Jason]

I agree with you that that is a common sentiment, but it's a false equivalence. One can't care about both?

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