Attack on the Feds independence

[Forkyfinder]

Blaming Congress is cute - as is the complete cognitive dissonance of not acknowledging that states/localities and the past admin absolutely contributed to this problem.

Im old enough to remember when a president couldn't do anything about the border, immigration, or enforcement - cause they needed "Congress."

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Immigrants doing the work established citizens don’t want to do at that pay level happens across all economies. Idaho ag needs a lot of immigrants to milk cows, etc.

Seems like a great way to suppress low skilled wage growth in this country.

Agree with most all of your post but this simple fact that an enormous influx of low skilled illegal immigrants makes it possible for some employers to suppress wage growth. You are spot on that most all citizens would not perform the work at these low wages. But would they at a higher wage? Absolutely! Isn't that what we were originally arguing about was stagnant wage growth in the US?

Not saying you in particular, but a whole bunch of folks like to scream about slow wage growth and then blame that on how much the CEO gets paid but have no problem with what amounts to slave labor being used to keep cost lower.

 

[thomas89]

All those in favor of shutting down this drivel ....

 

[Bonasababy]

You must watch the View too much.

Nope, I listen to law enforcement accounts and believe my eyes and ears when I watch video taken if ICE actions.

And friends and relatives. My sister told us they hauled away a catholic deacon in WC MN last week.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Tentatively, yes it might be one hellva celebration.

Also, a real leader does not ask anyone to do something they won't.

Oh I'll be there. Someone's got to start the chant.

 

[406dn]

Perhaps a point of agreement, I am not against immigration, but the current process of any one jumping the border is intolerable. We have 1 million legal immigrants last year, what is a fair number is your estimation? Should immigrant need to prove that they will not require public assistance? How about the ability to speak English. What is the threshold for too many-not enough? I agree there are a lot of crappy places in the world do we take them all?

I think this is an entirely fair question.

I have never had a problem with a secure border. I can remember debating my mother about this, going back to Reagan's administration.

It is also a fair question to find a number of immigrants that we can assimilate without causing problems.

We can't take them all.

We can still treat them with a level of human decency that we'd like extended to us.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Be sure to bring your make up and leave the chew at home too, dont want to look brown or talk funny.

?

 

[406dn]

Oh I'll be there. Someone's got to start the chant.

No, you have to weaponize a vehicle. That's a protester willing to go the extra mile.

 

[Bonasababy]

The SC arguments on the Feds Cook "firing" by Trumo are going very poorly for Trumps cause...

From their comments, at least 4 justices are clearly worried about the administration's claims that cause for firing does not need to be defined, that the president can fire almost at will, and what allowing those arguments would do to the clear intent to insure the Feds neutrality. With a dose of understanding that president's change and allowing it now means allowing it for all future presidents.

 

[brymoore]

Seems like a great way to suppress low skilled wage growth in this country.

Agree with most all of your post but this simple fact that an enormous influx of low skilled illegal immigrants makes it possible for some employers to suppress wage growth. You are spot on that most all citizens would not perform the work at these low wages. But would they at a higher wage? Absolutely! Isn't that what we were originally arguing about was stagnant wage growth in the US?

Not saying you in particular, but a whole bunch of folks like to scream about slow wage growth and then blame that on how much the CEO gets paid but have no problem with what amounts to slave labor being used to keep cost lower.

Low skilled immigrants are already here illegally doing the job. We can talk about the pay level but it’s probably much better than where they immigrated from and an entry into the country. Idaho milk industry is crying they’ll have to shut down if raided. Google search say Idaho milk pays “undocumented” workers $18 to $20 per hour. Similar to McD.

Americans don’t want to do that job and we don’t have enough workers in this country to do it. I know a big company in the dairy area, different ag type, who can’t keep legal labor. Labor skips Mondays and Fridays. Bonuses for full weeks doesn’t help. They work long enough to get unemployment.

 

[Bonasababy]

Was waiting for this, a reality check on the Trump administrations widely overstated claims of dangerous illegal criminals being rounded up by ICE in MN.

https://www.startribune.com/the-trump-administration-calls-them-the-worst-of-the-worst-heres-what-we-found/601555390?utm_source=gift

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Low skilled immigrants are already here illegally doing the job. We can talk about the pay level but it’s probably much better than where they immigrated from and an entry into the country. Idaho milk industry is crying they’ll have to shut down if raided. Google search say Idaho milk pays “undocumented” workers $18 to $20 per hour. Similar to McD.

Americans don’t want to do that job and we don’t have enough workers in this country to do it. I know a big company in the dairy area, different ag type, who can’t keep legal labor. Labor skips Mondays and Fridays. Bonuses for full weeks doesn’t help. They work long enough to get unemployment.

Maybe for $18 or $20/hr. But what would it take to get them to do it? I wouldn't work farm labor when I can make the same as McD's either. Additionally, as was pointed out by a few others in this thread, $20/hr still qualifies for government assistance programs in many places. Once again, why would anyone bust their ass in field ag work when they can make the same at fast food plus additional funds from the Gov?

It is most likely true that at any wage you still could not find enough legal citizens to do the work. I am all for an immigrant worker visa program. But continuing to allow employers to bring in low skilled labor from other countries, will guarantee that other low skilled wages will continue to show a slower rate of growth that what we would all like to see.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Was waiting for this, a reality check on the Trump administrations widely overstated claims of dangerous illegal criminals being rounded up by ICE in MN.

https://www.startribune.com/the-trump-administration-calls-them-the-worst-of-the-worst-heres-what-we-found/601555390?utm_source=gift

From your link

"About 80% of the 240 people on the “worst of the worst” list have felony convictions for crimes like murder, rape, theft, drugs or fraud."

You sure it's saying what you want it to?

 

[mtmiller]

https://cis.org/Krikorian/How-Can-Sanctuaries-Avoid-Mass-Deportation-Let-ICE-Their-Jails

This is likely what democrats wanted they dont want to fix the issue they want the issue on national news

Same things republicans do find a large issue try to make it worse and point the finger at the other side

The author and executive director is an interesting fella....as well as the founder of the organization, Tanton.

 

[Irrelevant]

Perhaps a point of agreement, I am not against immigration, but the current process of any one jumping the border is intolerable. We have 1 million legal immigrants last year, what is a fair number is your estimation? Should immigrant need to prove that they will not require public assistance? How about the ability to speak English. What is the threshold for too many-not enough? I agree there are a lot of crappy places in the world do we take them all?

How many? I don't know, but more than we currently have. Cherries went unpicked last year due to a lack of labor. Most other orchards around here are not as time sensitive. Apples and pears can be plus or minus a few weeks, cherries are tomorrow, in 3 days, your entire crop can go from turning a decent profit to worthless. I don't care about the ability to speak english upon arrival, my grandfather couldn't speak a lick when he got off the boat.

Do we take them all? no, of course we can't, we all recognize that. But I think there is something in all of us that sympathizes with someone wanting to make their life and the lives of their children better, after all, that's basically what the American dream is. So faulting someone because of where they were born, depriving a father of a means to provide for his kids... yeah, I know we can't take them all, but I deeply sympathize with why they want to come.

 

[406dn]

Not saying you in particular, but a whole bunch of folks like to scream about slow wage growth and then blame that on how much the CEO gets paid but have no problem with what amounts to slave labor being used to keep cost lower.

We have been offshoring jobs for decades. It is a big reason there is so much anger and frustration in the working class.

Years ago now, I debated this with my brother, who was in charge of medical device manufacturing for a major corporation. He spent a good share of time in China, while they offshored jobs there. I remember telling him something to the effect, you're searching the world for slave labor.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Maybe for $18 or $20/hr. But what would it take to get them to do it? I wouldn't work farm labor when I can make the same as McD's either. Additionally, as was pointed out by a few others in this thread, $20/hr still qualifies for government assistance programs in many places. Once again, why would anyone bust their ass in field ag work when they can make the same at fast food plus additional funds from the Gov?

It is most likely true that at any wage you still could not find enough legal citizens to do the work. I am all for an immigrant worker visa program. But continuing to allow employers to bring in low skilled labor from other countries, will guarantee that other low skilled wages will continue to show a slower rate of growth that what we would all like to see.

For the record, I believe that countries have a right to limit immigration into their territory. And it sounds like you and I might agree that what is really needed is an honest and realistic discussion of what we really want immigration to look like and what that would mean for our economy. The right and the left tend to approach the issue disingenuously and without a focus on actual solutions. Both sides have some fear of how an actual reasonable debate might affect their voting blocs.
My issues are with the extreme measures being employed right now, and especially with the violation of constitutional rights and the total lack of accountability (and I'll extend that waaaay beyond the immigration/ICE debacle).

 

[Archer86]

The author and executive director is an interesting fella....as well as the founder of the organization, Tanton.

I don't give a shit about the founder or even the guy the wrote the article......it makes logical sense that if you can keep ice busy processing criminals by turning over illegals that you could prevent what we are dealing with now.

The fact is democrats don't want to fix the problem they want to make it worse to get more news headlines.

 

[Handlebar]

How many? I don't know, but more than we currently have. Cherries went unpicked last year due to a lack of labor. Most other orchards around here are not as time sensitive. Apples and pears can be plus or minus a few weeks, cherries are tomorrow, in 3 days, your entire crop can go from turning a decent profit to worthless. I don't care about the ability to speak english upon arrival, my grandfather couldn't speak a lick when he got off the boat.

Do we take them all? no, of course we can't, we all recognize that. But I think there is something in all of us that sympathizes with someone wanting to make their life and the lives of their children better, after all, that's basically what the American dream is. So faulting someone because of where they were born, depriving a father of a means to provide for his kids... yeah, I know we can't take them all, but I deeply sympathize with why they want to come.

So, 11 million people came across, and fruit still isn't getting pick, perhaps they don't want those jobs either.
I can certainly sympathize and admire someone who wants better for themselves and their family. But we have to be realistic about how many.

 

[brymoore]

But continuing to allow employers to bring in low skilled labor from other countries, will guarantee that other low skilled wages will continue to show a slower rate of growth that what we would all like to see.

Immigration of lower level labor happens to all good economies. It’s happened in America since the beginning. First the English, then the Germans then the Scottish-Irish then the Irish and Italians. Fast forward and the surviving Europeans from WWIi came. Midwest auto plants were full of poles, Ukrainians, Germans and other war survivors when labor demand was high. Second immigrant generation usually does better. It’s a fact of life in a good country. I know second generation half Mexican whose father was illegal. Middle class life and doesn’t speak much Spanish past hola.

We can all hope for scientist and doctors to immigrate but their numbers are limited.

US needs to fix how immigrants come to the country. All presidents back to Eisenhower have failed to do much on the issue.