Attack on the Feds independence

[RG300]

They're not conservative or liberal. Just self serving.

Exhibit A : Ask a well off boomer if they still should get their SS checks after being a multi millionaire.

Short answer, yes.....they paid in, for decades, they should get the benefit..... then its up to them if they want to give it away....

Ask a gen z'r who does not believe in work, not even looked for a job in years, pays no rent & only drinks & smokes dope if he thinks he is entitled to the myriad of govt handouts.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Short answer, yes.....they paid in, for decades, they should get the benefit..... then its up to them if they want to give it away....

Ask a gen z'r who does not believe in work, not even looked for a job in years, pays no rent & only drinks & smokes dope if he thinks he is entitled to the myriad of govt handouts.

Is it a retirement program? Or a program to help the needy and otherwise unable to earn a salary?

It can't be both successfully and that's exactly what we are seeing play out. It isn't the SS checks to the economically challenged that's breaking the system. It's payouts to big earners.

 

[brymoore]

Is it a retirement program? Or a program to help the needy and otherwise unable to earn a salary?

It can't be both successfully and that's exactly what we are seeing play out. It isn't the SS checks to the economically challenged that's breaking the system. It's payouts to big earners.

Yes, but the big winners have paid into a specific retirement plan for decades. They want repayment of the funds.

Although, the SS problem might be helped by cutting payments once your annual salary is above X for your 5 best years. Pick a number. $200k? $500k?

 

[Bonasababy]

Did he speak with an accent? That seems to be the definition of 'probable cause' these days.

Not sure...but his nationality was Hmong. Skin color is definitely probable cause these days.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

That system seems to be working quite well for most of the free world.
Citing my personal Medicare, Tricare, VA "socialistic" coverage funded by the Feds supports that potential for this country as well.

Maybe one day it will be a reality and if it is successful in the US then I will gladly admit that my skepticism was wrong.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes, but the big winners have paid into a specific retirement plan for decades. They want repayment of the funds.

So it's a gov retirement plan - and not a program for the poor?

Imagine how much better off the needy would really be if people who owned multiple homes already weren't collecting 3k extra income for existing.

 

[SAJ-99]

Is it a retirement program? Or a program to help the needy and otherwise unable to earn a salary?

It can't be both successfully and that's exactly what we are seeing play out. It isn't the SS checks to the economically challenged that's breaking the system. It's payouts to big earners.

It is both. Three programs run under OASDI
- Regular SS that workers pay into that provides some (very modest) income after working years
- SSDI is the insurance for disabled workers under that SS umbrella
- SSI is the welfare-based benefit for the poor and disabled.

The reason it is forecast to get into trouble in the next decade is pretty simple. 1) People (ok, Boomers) are living longer than expected when they paid into the system. 2) Incomes, or taxes from incomes, which the SS tax is based on, as a whole are not keeping up in a way to generate enough new inflows into the system. That comes from not raising the earnings limit fast enough, the median income not being high enough, not enough workers, or people generating non-income wealth (trend towards salary payments in stock options). More bad news is that AI and robots won't be paying income taxes, so expect the numbers to get worse.

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe one day it will be a reality and if it is successful in the US then I will gladly admit that my skepticism was wrong.

Beats the chit out of our current system, privatize profits from Healthcare and socialize the losses.

Everyone that thinks a random number generator picked 65 as the age for Medicare to kick in raise their hands...

Purely by chance its not 64, 60, 55 or heaven forbid ALL.

 

[406dn]

Is it a retirement program? Or a program to help the needy and otherwise unable to earn a salary?

It can't be both successfully and that's exactly what we are seeing play out. It isn't the SS checks to the economically challenged that's breaking the system. It's payouts to big earners.

While I worry about whether SS will survive politically, presently. If there is means testing, it is only a matter of time before it would lose the broad based support it has enjoyed.

The demographic that would lose SS, would be largely professional, and highly paid. They are quite capable of exerting their political will. Even today, they whine that they could do better, if they just had the withheld taxes, to invest for themselves. Chances are they could come out better.

Without their SS taxes, the program would be strained even more than it is now.

My preferred fix is to make all earned income subject to the SS taxes. When I first started out after college, I'd hit the limit and have a month or two where SS taxes weren't withheld. The earnings cap was raised faster than my wages grew, and most of my working career, every dollar earned was taxed.

 

[mevertsen]

Short answer, yes.....they paid in, for decades, they should get the benefit..... then its up to them if they want to give it away....

Ask a gen z'r who does not believe in work, not even looked for a job in years, pays no rent & only drinks & smokes dope if he thinks he is entitled to the myriad of govt handouts.

You are making an assumption gen z are the only ones that fit the stereotype of the second paragraph.

I've dealth with many of those types of people in various generations.

That mentality is not restricted to one generation.

 

[SAJ-99]

Is it a retirement program?

To clarify, it is NOT a retirement program in the traditional sense of the word. It was a response to the Depression era unemployment of older Americans. It is meant to keep the old from being hungry and homeless. Apparently they can get $25/hr jobs so maybe it is not needed.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If there is means testing, it is only a matter of time before it would lose the broad based support it has enjoyed.

Isnt the word for that "greed" - the philosophy of "I'm not for paying in if I don't receive as much or more than I paid in" is sure to leave future generations well off.

 

[Forkyfinder]

To clarify, it is NOT a retirement program in the traditional sense of the word. It was a response to the Depression era unemployment of older Americans. It is meant to keep the old from being hungry and homeless. Apparently they can get $25/hr jobs so maybe it is not needed.

Yup.

Let's means test it! Those guys with multiple homes, sheep hunts, salmon trips - they are getting more than their share while grandma at walmart suffers.

 

[Bonasababy]

Yes, but the big winners have paid into a specific retirement plan for decades. They want repayment of the funds.

Although, the SS problem might be helped by cutting payments once your annual salary is above X for your 5 best years. Pick a number. $200k? $500k?

There is a substantial penalty if the wealthy take SS early but thats..it...and even though its next to nothing to them, I doubt any of them collect early.

Even if your Bezos, the Koch brothers or George Soros, you only pay social security taxes on the first $176,000 in income.

Changing that has to be the first step in any fix. As well as including income sources not currently subject to that tax with a reverse cap where those over the limit pay more and those under do not.

Annuities, interest and dividends are currently not subject to SS taxes.

I do not favor excluding the wealthy from collecting at all, but the system clearly is not fair with how little they have to pay in.

 

[SAJ-99]

Yup.

Let's means test it! Those guys with multiple homes, sheep hunts, salmon trips - they are getting more than their share while grandma at walmart suffers.

All for it. There is irony. The longer you wait to collect, the more you get. But those most able to delay collecting have sufficient funds to get them to the date with the best payout. The poor? They have to collect ASAP and consequently get the worst payment. Kind of odd. At least most of the benefit is taxed as income so it is hard to avoid that if you have other income, even under the OBBB.

 

[406dn]

Isnt the word for that "greed" - the philosophy of "I'm not for paying in if I don't receive as much or more than I paid in" is sure to leave future generations well off.

No, I don't think it is greed.

Presently, lower income earners receive a higher percentage of income benefit. Higher earners get a lower percentage of income benefit. Higher earners are subsidizing the benefit of lower earners.

If you tax a dentist for forty years for SS, then tell him, sorry Charlie, no benefit for you, do you think they would support SS, generally?

One big reason that medicare and SS enjoy support is everyone pays in and everyone receives a benefit.

 

[brymoore]

Yup.

Let's means test it! Those guys with multiple homes, sheep hunts, salmon trips - they are getting more than their share while grandma at walmart suffers.

Well, they’re paying much more too.

 

[brymoore]

There is a substantial penalty if the wealthy take SS early but thats..it...and even though its next to nothing to them, I doubt any of them collect early.

Even if your Bezos, the Koch brothers or George Soros, you only pay social security taxes on the first $176,000 in income.

Changing that has to be the first step in any fix. As well as including income sources not currently subject to that tax with a reverse cap where those over the limit pay more and those under do not.

Annuities, interest and dividends are currently not subject to SS taxes.

I do not favor excluding the wealthy from collecting at all, but the system clearly is not fair with how little they have to pay in.

I’m not against cutting/phasing SS out at a certain income level. I’m not sure if it really changes anything to the program.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’m not against cutting/phasing SS out at a certain income level. I’m not sure if it really changes anything to the program.

Changes it massively.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Well, they’re collecting much more too.

Social security payments exceed the taxes paid into them with a typical person.

Imagine how bad that math is for a dentist getting 5k a month is SS.