Art of The Deal
- Thread starter NDGuy
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Straight Arrow
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In agreement with most of your opinion, however as a two-tour Vietnam veteran Huey pilot and several decades of wearing the uniforms of the US Army, I have a better version of the result of the Vietnam conflict. At that time the White House buffoons and associated political pressures created and pursued a situation which unnecessarily cost over fifty-eight thousand lives and adversely impacts thousands more even to this day.
But those soldiers, sailors, airmen ... and women left an impression of a Western culture and way of life that deeply impressed the Vietnamese. A few short years ago, the tourism blossomed with South Vietnam building more new golf courses that year than any other country. Recently my grandson and friends*, as well as my son and gal, toured North and South Vietnam, enjoying magnificent scenery and outdoor recreation, and being hosted in great style by the countries. My main point is that the win is evidenced by the fact that both Hanoi and Saigon (I refuse to call it Ho Chi Minh city!) are a heck of a lot more like Los Angeles, Chicago, or New York ... than Peking!
*BTW, the three Montana boys then travelled to Bali, where they entered a beer pong contest with sixty teams competing. The Montana boys won ... and brought home a surfboard!
Big Sky Guy
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So if in 50 years Iran is setting records building golf courses we can consider this a win?In agreement with most of your opinion, however as a two-tour Vietnam veteran Huey pilot and several decades of wearing the uniforms of the US Army, I have a better version of the result of the Vietnam conflict. At that time the White House buffoons and associated political pressures created and pursued a situation which unnecessarily cost over fifty-eight thousand lives and adversely impacts thousands more even to this day.
But those soldiers, sailors, airmen ... and women left an impression of a Western culture and way of life that deeply impressed the Vietnamese. A few short years ago, the tourism blossomed with South Vietnam building more new golf courses that year than any other country. Recently my grandson and friends*, as well as my son and gal, toured North and South Vietnam, enjoying magnificent scenery and outdoor recreation, and being hosted in great style by the countries. My main point is that the win is evidenced by the fact that both Hanoi and Saigon (I refuse to call it Ho Chi Minh city!) are a heck of a lot more like Los Angeles, Chicago, or New York ... than Peking!
*BTW, the three Montana boys then travelled to Bali, where they entered a beer pong contest with sixty teams competing. The Montana boys won ... and brought home a surfboard!
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Yep ... however only as long as we don't have to pay for them!
Gulf of America
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If there’s one thing that wouldn’t surprise me coming out of this, it would be a good chunk of that $300B in our tax dollars building a few Trump golf course resorts in Iran.
noharleyyet
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No doubt...politicians & cronies gravitate to slush. It seems the more zeroes, the less bookkeeping.
CRJR45
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You mean like what happened to Renae Good and Alex Pretti ?
Redmt
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Is there any way to stop them from throwing billions and billions of tax payer money away on the nutzoids?
406dn
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I am afraid we taught Iran two things.
One, they need to actually possess a nuclear weapon. No one messes with a country having nukes, without serious consideration.
Two, they now realize that the Strait of Hormuz is an economic asset. It will be a dividend paying asset, going forward.
One, they need to actually possess a nuclear weapon. No one messes with a country having nukes, without serious consideration.
Two, they now realize that the Strait of Hormuz is an economic asset. It will be a dividend paying asset, going forward.
Geez, how does it get worse? We lost a war of choice to a third world country because our president couldn't put his own ego aside and felt he had to put his own country in jeopardy to appease Israel. American citizens got $5 gas and more inflation and were told 'it's worth it.' The ineptitude and lies in DC would be comical if it didn't have a direct negative impact on every American. Sure Newsom has made some blunders in California, but it still has the fourth largest economy in the world.
406dn
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Everything you said is true, but I'll add that the high energy prices has been our gift to the entire world.
Forkyfinder
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Youre correct on both counts.
The strait is going to be a mess from here on out. Iran figured out they can hold the whole world economically hostage.
Theres alternatives for fossil fuel (saudi is building a big pipeline) but a third of the worlds fertilizer, and helium, and half the worlds sulfur.
We are going to be in a world of hurt in mid to late July into next year. I would be fast tracking some large pipelines across the penisular away from Iran and Isarel. No one seems to understand what running out of fuel, fertilizer, or other petroluem products means
CRJR45
Well-known member
The voters are ignorant of almost everything!
They vote with their feelings, mostly hatred.
Wes Mantooth
Well-known member
The current "Deal" postpones every substantive nuclear question. The MOU contains no enrichment cap, no centrifuge limits, no stockpile ceiling — only a commitment that Iran "shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons" and a vague agreement to discuss the stockpile later.
By contrast, the JCPOA was a 159-page technical document that required Iran to reduce its centrifuges by two-thirds, commit not to build new enrichment facilities for 15 years, significantly reduce its enriched-uranium stockpile, and disable a major heavy-water reactor, capping enrichment at 3.67% — far below weapons grade. The current MOU has none of that specificity yet, and it's not guaranteed the final deal will either.
It ignores ballistic missiles and proxies — but so did the JCPOA. Neither dealt with Iran's ballistic missiles, Tehran's network of proxy forces or the weakening of the regime. Trump has actually said it's "okay" for Iran to retain ballistic missiles proportional to its neighbors.
It's bilateral rather than multilateral. The JCPOA was signed by Iran plus the US, Russia, China, France, Britain, Germany and the EU, which gave it international enforcement weight. This deal was brokered through Pakistan and Qatar as a US-Iran arrangement backed by the threat of renewed bombing; the stick vs the carrot. That makes its durability rest on military threat rather than institutional buy-in, and either side can walk away — a senior US official conceded "either side can walk away at any time until you really have a fulsome binding deal."
The most infuriating part of this whole thing is it was AVOIDABLE....the others' comments about the long term ripple effect (fertilizer, petro, etc.) are spot on. We are a long ways away from being out of the shit, and enduring more financial strain. I don't care which party flag you fly, this current admin is an f'ing disaster for this country on all meaningful fronts. I am really tired of all of this and for the Epstein-th time how it changes, and we deal with another round of whiplash.
By contrast, the JCPOA was a 159-page technical document that required Iran to reduce its centrifuges by two-thirds, commit not to build new enrichment facilities for 15 years, significantly reduce its enriched-uranium stockpile, and disable a major heavy-water reactor, capping enrichment at 3.67% — far below weapons grade. The current MOU has none of that specificity yet, and it's not guaranteed the final deal will either.
It ignores ballistic missiles and proxies — but so did the JCPOA. Neither dealt with Iran's ballistic missiles, Tehran's network of proxy forces or the weakening of the regime. Trump has actually said it's "okay" for Iran to retain ballistic missiles proportional to its neighbors.
It's bilateral rather than multilateral. The JCPOA was signed by Iran plus the US, Russia, China, France, Britain, Germany and the EU, which gave it international enforcement weight. This deal was brokered through Pakistan and Qatar as a US-Iran arrangement backed by the threat of renewed bombing; the stick vs the carrot. That makes its durability rest on military threat rather than institutional buy-in, and either side can walk away — a senior US official conceded "either side can walk away at any time until you really have a fulsome binding deal."
The most infuriating part of this whole thing is it was AVOIDABLE....the others' comments about the long term ripple effect (fertilizer, petro, etc.) are spot on. We are a long ways away from being out of the shit, and enduring more financial strain. I don't care which party flag you fly, this current admin is an f'ing disaster for this country on all meaningful fronts. I am really tired of all of this and for the Epstein-th time how it changes, and we deal with another round of whiplash.
That is the problem, both sides are really screwed up. Its not necessarily a R or D problem, but a system funded by lobbyist and no term limits on congress. They are all mostly corrupt except for a few.
Forkyfinder
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A reoccuring problem regardless of issue.
CRJR45
Well-known member
I agree 100% each side is equally ignorant of the issues and how they're affected by them .
The Us vs Them mentality is dragging us all down .
