Are overran National Parks a glimpse of the future of all our public lands?

[Irrelevant]

Nothing we don't know or haven't seen already

An Explosion In Visitors Is Threatening The Very Things National Parks Try To Protect

Growing crowds at America's national parks have prompted some of them to allow entry by reserved tickets only. Arches National Park in Utah may be next, and there's renewed controversy over that step.

www.npr.org

As more national parks go to a reservation system, I wonder, as growth continues (as it must under this Orwellian system we've created), when will the simply freedoms we as hunters currently take for granted, the wandering seemingly endless tracks of public land, end? Surely if the trend continues at some point, however distant in the future, will it be necessary to make a reservation for a particular slice of our national forest or patch of BLM sage?

 

[JDH]

I doubt it will get that bad...at least not for a long time. Parks have amenities are well known. Your average piece of Forest Service is just that...an average piece of Forest Service. I could see specific locations going to permit only due to something being put on social media.

 

[geetar]

Nothing we don't know or haven't seen already

An Explosion In Visitors Is Threatening The Very Things National Parks Try To Protect

Growing crowds at America's national parks have prompted some of them to allow entry by reserved tickets only. Arches National Park in Utah may be next, and there's renewed controversy over that step.

www.npr.org

As more national parks go to a reservation system, I wonder, as growth continues (as it must under this Orwellian system we've created), when will the simply freedoms we as hunters currently take for granted, the wandering seemingly endless tracks of public land, end? Surely if the trend continues at some point, however distant in the future, will it be necessary to make a reservation for a particular slice of our national forest or patch of BLM sage?

So you will need a permit to access land to hunt your permit. I hope we never see that day.

 

[Schaaf]

Hard to say what it will be like in another 20 years. I do feel confident in saying that the BLM land around me will be the last chunks of land to be overran.

 

[MNElkNut]

I am hopeful that the surge my be a result of Covid. People are not vacationing overseas so they are hitting the parks. Next year, if things are normal, may see a decrease in public land usage. MN fishing license sales were down this year compared to last. Time will tell, but it might not be as bad as it looks from the viewpoint of early July 2021.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So you will need a permit to access land to hunt your permit. I hope we never see that day.

Lots of public land that requires a pass to use the trail, etc already. It's coming to the Rockies soon enough.

 

[DouglasR]

I am hopeful that the surge my be a result of Covid. People are not vacationing overseas so they are hitting the parks. Next year, if things are normal, may see a decrease in public land usage. MN fishing license sales were down this year compared to last. Time will tell, but it might not be as bad as it looks from the viewpoint of early July 2021.

It may take awhile but as long as we go back to some form of normalcy regarding travel and large gatherings I bet interests in the outdoors drops off.
thankfully the medical community has focused more on educating people of the benefits of the vaccine and not healthy diet and exercise throughout the pandemic.

 

[manitou1]

Too many people on this spinning ball.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Hard to say what it will be like in another 20 years. I do feel confident in saying that the BLM land around me will be the last chunks of land to be overran.

Your signature line LMFAO

 

[grizzly_]

We need kid's soccer, football, lacrosse, dance, scouts, baseball, etc... to start back up.

The excuse to not go camping has always been kid's activities. BRING 'EM BACK!

 

[Nameless Range]

To a degree sure, but I don't think it will ever be analogous to what we see today in our parks. Those are destinations that suffer from so much, a chief factor among those things being we built it and they came. No doubt we will see more permits for rivers, and campsites, and maybe even popular trails, but there will still be those places no one visits. Where a trail camera sitting for a year or two won't record a human soul. Hold on to those places if you know about em.

That said, there is a way, however regarded as "elitist" as it may be, to quell such a demand and to diminish the extractive nature of people on the land, and that is to make it as hard as possible to get to a place and enjoy it.

I don't wanna derail the thread, so I 'll say this and back off - call it a suffering tax, or a fitness cost, but we gotta get ahead of that which allows the masses to have the largest negative effects on the landscape per unit time they spend there. This starts with roads and motorized use, and moves to ebikes and then bikes, and then maybe horses, and ultimately trails themselves.

 

[Schaaf]

Your signature line LMFAO

Please read the forum rules regarding changing your avatar.

 

[Irrelevant]

To a degree sure, but I don't think it will ever be analogous to what we see today in our parks. Those are destinations that suffer from so much, a chief factor among those things being we built it and they came. No doubt we will see more permits for rivers, and campsites, and maybe even popular trails, but there will still be those places no one visits. Where a trail camera sitting for a year or two won't record a human soul. Hold on to those places if you know about em.

That said, there is a way, however regarded as "elitist" as it may be, to quell such a demand and to diminish the extractive nature of people on the land, and that is to make it as hard as possible to get to a place and enjoy it.

I don't wanna derail the thread, so I 'll say this and back off - call it a suffering tax, or a fitness cost, but we gotta get ahead of that which allows the masses to have the largest negative effects on the landscape per unit time they spend there. This starts with roads and motorized use, and moves to ebikes and then bikes, and then maybe horses, and ultimately trails themselves.

Ever is a pretty long time...

If we start limiting NPs, but we keep growing, where will the people go?

I don't think we have to worry about my lifetime, or heck, even my grandkids lifetime, but I feel it is inevitable.

 

[Sytes]

Nothing we don't know or haven't seen already

An Explosion In Visitors Is Threatening The Very Things National Parks Try To Protect

Growing crowds at America's national parks have prompted some of them to allow entry by reserved tickets only. Arches National Park in Utah may be next, and there's renewed controversy over that step.

www.npr.org

As more national parks go to a reservation system, I wonder, as growth continues (as it must under this Orwellian system we've created), when will the simply freedoms we as hunters currently take for granted, the wandering seemingly endless tracks of public land, end? Surely if the trend continues at some point, however distant in the future, will it be necessary to make a reservation for a particular slice of our national forest or patch of BLM sage?

I posted this in another thread... though you are spot on...

Off the Grid and Overrun - Flathead Beacon

It’s not quite 9 a.m. and North Fork District Ranger Jim Dahlstrom has heard the names “Bowman” and “Kintla” lakes mispronounced so many times he’s stopped correcting people, turning his attention instead to the more pressing business of parsing visitors — sizing them up and winnowing the...

flatheadbeacon.com

 

[Oak]

90% of NPS permits to residents only would fix the parks problems.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I have posted this photo before, but I thought it fit this thread so I am posting it again. It was taken at a wilderness area trailhead on a holiday weekend.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

90% of NPS permits to residents only would fix the parks problems.

Make them transferrable and I'd give you a 25% discount to GTNP over the regular NR rate.

 

[Oak]

Hey, I’m a resident.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Nothing we don't know or haven't seen already

An Explosion In Visitors Is Threatening The Very Things National Parks Try To Protect

Growing crowds at America's national parks have prompted some of them to allow entry by reserved tickets only. Arches National Park in Utah may be next, and there's renewed controversy over that step.

www.npr.org

As more national parks go to a reservation system, I wonder, as growth continues (as it must under this Orwellian system we've created), when will the simply freedoms we as hunters currently take for granted, the wandering seemingly endless tracks of public land, end? Surely if the trend continues at some point, however distant in the future, will it be necessary to make a reservation for a particular slice of our national forest or patch of BLM sage?

I think it will resemble the east coast a bit... will likely happen faster since you can hide a lot more people in the denser forests.

Camping in popular areas is developed sites only, dispersed camping is allowed, but you have to be well away from a trailhead.

I would imagine MA is about as crazy as public lands get. There are in-fact, a shit load of public lands in MA, but it's a hodgepodge of access regulations, and no dispersed camping (kinda/mostly)

For instance this spring I hunted 3 USFWS refuges, some state land, and some wildlife management area lands.
The WMAs are like BLM kinda free for all.

The state land requires you register you vehicle and you get a 5 year permit, you have to have a hanging tag and a license on you at all times to enter it, your registration is only good for one watershed, to access the whole state you need 3 or 4 I think. You can't access the land for hiking or other req it's hunting only.

The USFWS refuges anyone can access for free but you have to stay on the trail. Off trail use is restricted to hunters, permits are $20 and only good within one system. Similar to state lands you have to have a vehicle tag and permit in your possession. It was a bit of a PITA and I ended up just putting a folder of all my passes in my car. I think I have 6 in there right now.

It's a PITA, but it actually seems decently effective at preserving public lands with so many users.

There is a lot of surface shitting, trash, and just over use going on in lots of places.

I love being able to just roll up and camp on blm... but I also want my kids to be able to have untrammeled places.... or at least trailheads that don't human shit and tp everywhere.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Hey, I’m a resident.

ooohh... sorry, yeah even though you applied for a NPS permit this round was for 30+ year olds without kids. I know bummer, but your money will go to digging latrines.