Anyone seen the Rivian vehicles?

neffa3

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Better read the blue fine print.....
All it is is that your cc will be charged per use/charge at all of their charging stations. I've got a couple of co-workers with them now and having crunched the #s if you do any significant about of pavement miles it's getting really hard to make any other car purchase pencil out better if you're looking at it just economically.
 

neffa3

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If you read through their disclaimers I found them to be WAY more up front and straight forward to understand.

The self driving would really help me on road trips, I always catch myself on rumble strip while trying to figure out of that spot on the hill is a deer or a rock.
 

LCH

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Speaking economically.. I'm thinking that very few people would come out ahead buying a $35k Tesla then charging, vs. buying a brand new Ford Fiesta or similar for $13-14k and getting 40 mpg. Even if every charge were completely free, it takes a lot mileage to make up that price differential in an economy car.
 

LCH

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$21k price difference. At $3/gallon gas, 40 mpg average, would have to drive 280000 miles just to make that up, not factoring in charge costs.

No doubt, Teslas are a lot cooler though.
 

neffa3

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Well if you want to ride the bus or buy a 1990's geo metro you'd probably come out ahead too, but if you're even quasi trying to compare apples to apples, they're becoming pretty hard to beat.
 

MTGomer

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Compare the Tesla 3 more to a Merc C class or Audi A4. Or even a Honda Accord.

If you’re looking for a fast car, the high end of the S is the 3rd fastest production car in the world. The cars that are faster are hundreds of thousands more.

If I had a 100k+ to spend on a car it would probably make noise and burn a shit load of fossil fuel but the Tesla’s are sweet
 
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wllm1313

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Well if you want to ride the bus or buy a 1990's geo metro you'd probably come out ahead too, but if you're even quasi trying to compare apples to apples, they're becoming pretty hard to beat.
What are your thoughts on maintenance costs? I would make a sizeable bet that for people who drive cars into the ground any electric vehicle is a poor investment.

I've got a 06 corolla with 240k, still gets about 35mpg in the city, I drove it off the lot for 14k, aside from gas I probably spend $200 a year on oil changes + 300 a year for other maintenance (amortized for the sake of discussion, belts, hoses, trans fluid, engine coolant, tires, etc.)

I've only had two repairs that I would consider outside the scope of normal maintenance and those cost $500 a piece.

I'm assuming you can cut most of the maintenance costs out of a electric vehicle aside from tires, brakes, etc... but what worries me is that if you have to make any kind of significant repair the cost is going to be obscene.

If you actually tried to fix a computer or smart phone you know that, 99% of the time you are just better off buying a new one, I have a sneaking suspicion that a Tesla battery is gonna cost something like 10k to replace and if something breaks after 100k that it's going to cost 20k to fix not $500. I've done some cursory googling and it seems like any Tesla that has driving more than 250k by a consumer (not the company) has required a battery and motor replacement.
 

mtmiller

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If you actually tried to fix a computer or smart phone you know that, 99% of the time you are just better off buying a new one, I have a sneaking suspicion that a Tesla battery is gonna cost something like 10k to replace and if something breaks after 100k that it's going to cost 20k to fix not $500. I've done some cursory googling and it seems like any Tesla that has driving more than 250k by a consumer (not the company) has required a battery and motor replacement.
Pretty sure I won't be buying an electric car anytime soon in my neck of the woods, but it will only be a matter of time.

I was curious about your Tesla battery price quote. Appears accurate, but Tesla also has an 8 year warranty on the battery. How much has the cost of these batteries dropped in the last 8 years? How much will it continue to drop in the next 8 years.

It will be cheaper, longer lasting and more powerful as technology progresses. Doubtful it will be a throw away car when the warranty is up. haha
 

cgarner

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I highly doubt anyone considering purchasing an electric vehicle is doing so because they think they are saving money compared to a low-end to the middle of the road economy car. There is no way it will pencil out until they are mainstream. The only reason I would consider buying one is my desire to leave the earth in a better place, cut done on using fossil fuels, reduce pollution........ and if I had the coin.

My wife really likes them. I guess that means I better start saving. Who knows what the next 5 years holds for this technology.
 

wllm1313

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I was curious about your Tesla battery price quote. Appears accurate, but Tesla also has an 8 year warranty on the battery. How much has the cost of these batteries dropped in the last 8 years? How much will it continue to drop in the next 8 years.
Yeah 8 years 120k... for a person like me that's like having to buy a brand new car, about a 1/3 of the way through the vehicles usable life... which is totally untenable. I can't even imagine would 10k of repairs on a corolla would be... probably could just turn it into a Tacoma for that price.

As far an environmental impact, would love to be proved wrong here, but I can't imagine a corolla at 300k v. a tesla at 300k (let's say 2 batteries) has had more impact when you take full resource extraction into account. I mean you are talking about a massive open pit mine in Africa v. a 9.5 inch hole in the ground in Texas.

I'm curious to see what happens going forward, if Tesla can figure out a better way to source materials and figure out a way to make their vehicles really last I will definitely be on-board.
 

cgarner

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neffa3

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What are your thoughts on maintenance costs? I would make a sizeable bet that for people who drive cars into the ground any electric vehicle is a poor investment.

I've got a 06 corolla with 240k, still gets about 35mpg in the city, I drove it off the lot for 14k, aside from gas I probably spend $200 a year on oil changes + 300 a year for other maintenance (amortized for the sake of discussion, belts, hoses, trans fluid, engine coolant, tires, etc.)

I've only had two repairs that I would consider outside the scope of normal maintenance and those cost $500 a piece.

I'm assuming you can cut most of the maintenance costs out of a electric vehicle aside from tires, brakes, etc... but what worries me is that if you have to make any kind of significant repair the cost is going to be obscene.

If you actually tried to fix a computer or smart phone you know that, 99% of the time you are just better off buying a new one, I have a sneaking suspicion that a Tesla battery is gonna cost something like 10k to replace and if something breaks after 100k that it's going to cost 20k to fix not $500. I've done some cursory googling and it seems like any Tesla that has driving more than 250k by a consumer (not the company) has required a battery and motor replacement.
A couple of things. There's zero maintenance, so think about all those oil changes and air filters. You almost never actually use your breaks, it's all ressistive(?) recharge. You do have tires. But 10% degradation over 160k ain't too bad, and it slows with time. https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/

And while that corolla may have been a very reliable car. I know others that are completely dead by 140k, I can think of six from friends and family off the top of my head. So it's not like there's not a range of comparisons. And when you look at electric motors I know I still have some from the 1950/60s that are working just fine (drill and skill saw).

Like I said earlier my wife and I are in the market for a new car, but we're still probably not going with a Telsa because of the uncertainty, but I have very little doubt I will purchase one or more in the future.
 

LCH

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Go fast/fun, yes the Tesla is no doubt a great value. Can't beat it from a performance standpoint, anywhere remotely in that price range. I just thought the discussion was drifting towards cheap transportation costs.
 

wllm1313

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Can you explain the brake bit?

You almost never actually use your breaks, it's all ressistive(?) recharge.

Like I said earlier my wife and I are in the market for a new car, but we're still probably not going with a Telsa because of the uncertainty, but I have very little doubt I will purchase one or more in the future.
Can you link to something about the brakes I don't follow. I drive a manual so ostensibly brake less than someone in an automatic but still have to change pads every 50k or so...is this similar?

You raise good points all around, and yeah I probably will get one too, but I will probably wait another 5 years.

I guess my general unease is that overtime you will see some massive costs to do repairs as they age, but the cars haven't been around long enough to real know if that's an issue. I don't think you can accurately say what will be cheaper to own after 15 years of ownership, just a lack of data.

Also I'm not fully convinced that with current technology and sourcing, these vehicles are that much better for the planet.
 

cgarner

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I'm not knowledgable enough to fully understand the environmental negatives and positives with electric cars vs. gas cars. I remember reading that Tesla recycles their batteries, so is the only impact with extraction?

Based on my limited knowledge, I always thought that the impact of fossil fuels was much greater.
 
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