American prairie. What's the issue?

[antlerradar]

If I didn't hunt, we would get our meat from a family friend, who runs a completely free-range outfit on mostly private. That's where my parents and sister get there's.

How much of that gap in price for the producer could be made up by either streamlining the middleman, or eliminating him entirely?

I am all for people getting there meat from someone like your friend.

You can make up quite a bit of the price gap, maybe even come out ahead by getting rid of the middlemen, Problem is you are also adding in extra costs and time. Middlemen are pretty efficient and for many of us there is simply not enough days in the year to take on the extra work.

 

[antlerradar]

And if you try to put it in native pasture, that damn for sure, will not work. Native grasses suck for cattle.That is why they planted it all in brome.

I disagree with this. Big Blue stem, Little Blue stem, Idaho Fescue. Western Weatgrass, Green Needle Grass, Side Oats Grama and just about all of the other native spices make excellent cow food. People planted Smooth Brome and other non natives because they are cheap, easy to establish and readily available. It is also likely that non natives out compete the natives because many of the things that eat them besides cows are left across the Atlantic.
In the Sixty's the forest service plowed up 1000s of acres of native range land and planted it in a pasture mix in an effort to improve forage production. The pasture mix contained Smooth Brome and the Brome out competed all of the other spices. Now it is almost a mono culture of brome. It might have seamed like a good idea at the time, but it proved to be a disaster. If I could get rid of all of the Brome in my pasture and replace it with natives, I would in an instant

 

[R.K.]

And if you try to put it in native pasture, that damn for sure, will not work. Native grasses suck for cattle.That is why they planted it all in brome.

Native grasses are damn good forage, and can provide more biomass and nutrition per acre than most other plants you can run cattle on. The problem is they cannot handle the sustained pressure of continuous grazing by cattle, which is also a selective grazing model- that’s why brome and fescue became mainstays. It was replaced because farmers could fence off a parcel and turn the cows out for several months without it turning into pure mud, where the native grass would die if grazed down to the ground. Eastern gamagrass is damn near extinct in places because the cattle eat it first, and down to the roots. This was a solution to the situation they found themselves in.

The issue lies in managing grazing pressure on natives: reducing selective grazing, leaving adequate stubble for the plants to recover, and giving it enough time to rest and recover.

The native grasses evolved with bison and their grazing habits. If you utilize mob grazing/AMP grazing to mimic those habits, with only a day or two of high-density grazing, while leaving adequate stubble (8-10” for tall grass species) and adequate days to recover, you can get double the animal use days from a pasture annually, with healthier grass at the end, sustained for years. There is a growing body of evidence for this method, both academic and practical, to produce high-quality cattle on just native grass.

 

[Slam]

Native grasses are damn good forage, and can provide more biomass and nutrition per acre than most other plants you can run cattle on. The problem is they cannot handle the sustained pressure of continuous grazing by cattle, which is also a selective grazing model- that’s why brome and fescue became mainstays. It was replaced because farmers could fence off a parcel and turn the cows out for several months without it turning into pure mud, where the native grass would die if grazed down to the ground. Eastern gamagrass is damn near extinct in places because the cattle eat it first, and down to the roots. This was a solution to the situation they found themselves in.

The issue lies in managing grazing pressure on natives: reducing selective grazing, leaving adequate stubble for the plants to recover, and giving it enough time to rest and recover.

The native grasses evolved with bison and their grazing habits. If you utilize mob grazing/AMP grazing to mimic those habits, with only a day or two of high-density grazing, while leaving adequate stubble (8-10” for tall grass species) and adequate days to recover, you can get double the animal use days from a pasture annually, with healthier grass at the end, sustained for years. There is a growing body of evidence for this method, both academic and practical, to produce high-quality cattle on just native grass.

AMEN

Checkout (Greg Judy Regenerative Rancher) on Youtube. At the macro level this is his approach. His Mission is "I grow grass, everything else follows" or something similar. He claims his operation pencils much better than the conventional approach. And requires less capital.

I buy locally produced grass fed beef (for the last 22 yrs), generally a half with hanging weights averaging ~ 500 lbs (@ $4.00 lb this yr.) That price includes processing. Assume 300 lbs processed my cost basis ~$6.67 lb. 21 days aging. Not wagu good but my family has been quite happy with the product.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The OP-ED linked below describes the opposition to AP as perceived by UPOM's Chuck Denowh. IMO, it is replete with myths such as marauding bison, economic downturn of region due to AP, and others you will recognize. Moreover, as stated previously the SAVE THE COWBOY campaign completely ignores AP's support of the cattle industry as reflected by thousands of cattle grazing on AP lands.

Chuck Denowh: BLM moves to save the cowboys by rejecting AP’s radical project

Unlike domestic cattle, bison are powerful, unpredictable animals that can breach fences and wander onto adjacent properties, damaging crops, infrastructure, and even posing safety hazards to humans, guest columnist Chuck

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

 

[Rack Daniels]

How much of that gap in price for the producer could be made up by either streamlining the middleman, or eliminating him entirely?

I am all for people getting there meat from someone like your friend.

You can make up quite a bit of the price gap, maybe even come out ahead by getting rid of the middlemen, Problem is you are also adding in extra costs and time. Middlemen are pretty efficient and for many of us there is simply not enough days in the year to take on the extra work.

Quick interjection…
The middlemen are willing to sell the product the long way. One steak at a time. One pound of burger at a time. That alone is the reason that I cannot buy from the dealer directly…

 

[BrentD]

AMEN

Checkout (Greg Judy Regenerative Rancher) on Youtube. At the macro level this is his approach. His Mission is "I grow grass, everything else follows" or something similar. He claims his operation pencils much better than the conventional approach. And requires less capital.

I buy locally produced grass fed beef (for the last 22 yrs), generally a half with hanging weights averaging ~ 500 lbs (@ $4.00 lb this yr.) That price includes processing. Assume 300 lbs processed my cost basis ~$6.67 lb. 21 days aging. Not wagu good but my family has been quite happy with the product.

Ain't no way he's growing more pounds of beef per acre than 220 bushels of yellow gold will make.

 

[IDiot]

And then we'll have a whole new campaign to "Save the Farmer" as the Ethanol, Monsanto, and Bayer lobby paint the picture of evil organic farmers threatening the "traditional" methods of that have served our nation for "over 50 years"

The herbicide lobby is already doing this. I've seen several billboard across the country that say something like "Control weeds not (insert state) farming, stand up for glyphosate".

 

[BrentD]

And then we'll have a whole new campaign to "Save the Farmer" as the Ethanol, Monsanto, and Bayer lobby paint the picture of evil organic farmers threatening the "traditional" methods of that have served our nation for "over 50 years"

Where have you been? Preserving the Family Farm has far exceeded the hype of the american cowboys' plight, small businesses, and so many other things.

There are pro glyphosate billboards all along the highways in iowa. Lobbying to protect chemical companies from class action lawsuits due to agriculture.

 

[Gerald Martin]

What is your denominator?


Whoever said that was supposed to be a priority and god forbid that it ever should become one. Certainly, that is not what we have been talking about here.

Corn and soybeans account for nearly 70% of total crop acreage on an annual basis.

@ 35-40% of corn production is for ethanol and @ 40-45% of soybean oil is used for biofuels.

Biofuels/ethanol production exceeds production for animal feed and is double the amount of exported productions.

I’m pretty sure a few hundred thousand acres of grassland/wildlife habitat being converted to accommodate bison grazing as well as beef production isn’t going to lead to food shortages due to a lack of beef availability in the local grocery store. Not when 25-30 million acres worth of annual crop production is being burned as transportation energy.

 

[Nunjagottam]

Ya, been a while since I've been through the corn belt. Back in the teens I drove cross country couple times per year. Hated MN IL and IA for the total lack of ethanol free gasoline.
I guess to tryn bring this thread back around; agriculture lobby dictates far too many decisions for how public lands are utilized. I think APs approach is honorable, the opposition hides behind some poorly constructed straw men and resorts to flagging red herring for the substance of their argument. Crony capitalism is as much (more of) a threat to our public lands and access than any of the conservation groups currently trying to compete for equal use of these lands through competitive bidding.

 

[BrentD]

Corn and soybeans account for nearly 70% of total crop acreage on an annual basis.

@ 35-40% of corn production is for ethanol and @ 40-45% of soybean oil is used for biofuels.

Biofuels/ethanol production exceeds production for animal feed and is double the amount of exported productions.

I’m pretty sure a few hundred thousand acres of grassland/wildlife habitat being converted to accommodate bison grazing as well as beef production isn’t going to lead to food shortages due to a lack of beef availability in the local grocery store. Not when 25-30 million acres worth of annual crop production is being burned as transportation energy.

Good luck with that. Before there was ethanol, every single acre of Iowa that could be corn or soybeans was corn or soybeans. That's not gonna change. Don't graze cattle on the Black Desert. It is a money loser. What about all those poor pigs and turkeys and chickens that need that feed too?

Farmers are profit whores, just like everyone else. If they could make more money grazing cows, that is what would happen.

 

[BrentD]

Good luck with that. Before there was ethanol, every single acre of Iowa that could be corn or soybeans was corn or soybeans. That's not gonna change. Don't graze cattle on the Black Desert. It is a money loser. What about all those poor pigs and turkeys and chickens that need that feed too?

Farmers are profit whores, just like everyone else. If they could make more money grazing cows, that is what would happen.

I do not know about illinois, but I can tell you for a fact that it is extraordinarily easy to buy ethanol, free gasoline in iowa to this day. I lived there for thirty three years, five months, and seventeen days. This has been true for every minute of that period which ended on june seventeenth of last year.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Good luck with that. Before there was ethanol, every single acre of Iowa that could be corn or soybeans was corn or soybeans. That's not gonna change. Don't graze cattle on the Black Desert. It is a money loser. What about all those poor pigs and turkeys and chickens that need that feed too?

Farmers are profit whores, just like everyone else. If they could make more money grazing cows, that is what would happen.

Who’s advocating that we graze cattle on the Black Desert? My only point is that if everyone to is so worried that Americans are going to go hungry because AP is converting rangeland to bison production there’s more than enough crop production that can be shifted back to animal feed to make up for it.

 

[BrentD]

Who’s advocating that we graze cattle on the Black Desert? My only point is that if everyone to is so worried that Americans are going to go hungry because AP is converting rangeland to bison production there’s more than enough crop production that can be shifted back to animal feed to make up for it.

The direction of this conversation changes faster than a morning breeze.

But I never heard we are discussing how AP's bison was going to produce a beef shortage anywhere. I guess I missed that particular fickle wind.

Right now, since we aren't selling any corn to china, there's plenty of animal feed to go around. But the ag fields in iowa will be planted in the spring regardless.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The direction of this conversation changes faster than a morning breeze.

But I never heard we are discussing how AP's bison was going to produce a beef shortage anywhere. I guess I missed that particular fickle wind.

Right now, since we aren't selling any corn to china, there's plenty of animal feed to go around. But the ag fields in iowa will be planted in the spring regardless.

And the American taxpayer will subsidize those ag fields if market prices are too low for those farmers to be profitable. At least the crops are planted…..

 

[BrentD]

And the American taxpayer will subsidize those ag fields if market prices are too low for those farmers to be profitable. At least the crops are planted…..

Yes, of course, just like they subsidize everything else, including grazing beef out west on public ground.

I am losing track of what the point of this conversation is about. There seems to be at least three or four or five different directions that is has gone. I am not sure any of them are profitable any longer.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes, of course, just like they subsidize everything else, including grazing beef out west on public ground.

I am losing track of what the point of this conversation is about. There seems to be at least three or four or five different directions that is has gone. I am not sure any of them are profitable any longer.

Save the cowboy!

Happy to get it back on topic for everyone.

 

[antlerradar]

Who’s advocating that we graze cattle on the Black Desert? My only point is that if everyone to is so worried that Americans are going to go hungry because AP is converting rangeland to bison production there’s more than enough crop production that can be shifted back to animal feed to make up for it.

AP by it's self in not going to make one bit of difference in the cattle market. Combine AP with all the other billionaires that have bought property and cut cattle numbers, plus all of the developers that have turned once rangeland into housing and it does make a difference. We aren't going to starve any time soon, but it is part of the reason beef is so high priced at the store right now.