Caribou Gear

American Prairie - 88,000 acres of access

Forkyfinder said:
1. Wealthy people arent inherently evil. I guess im still "old school" republican to believe that.
2. No org thats doing controversial work (conservation, i guess?) wants to knee cap future donations by political hacks gaining a list of "boogeymen" who donated to it.
3. Non - profits dont pay income tax. Color me shocked thats news to you.
4. No idea how an award/prize is worth scorn - but it checks out with rest of your logic.

Im curious - what is the worst that could happen? What would they - lobby for all out war on elk or something? Perhaps the "worst" thing theyd do idealogically would be take some of the existing agriculture out of production - but thats hardly unique to billionare ranch owners.

Anyway, raisin bran cereal always gave me the shits and now i get why.
Click to expand...
Your anxiousness in being wrong gives you the bowl problems.
 
Southern Elk said:
Your numbers are incorrect. From the AP website…

Since 2004, we have completed 43 transactions to build our habitat base of 526,959 acres. Of that total, 140,443 acres are private lands owned by American Prairie and 386,516 acres are leased public lands (federal and state).

They own 140,443 acres. There are many individuals in MT and throughout the west that own more than that. And those privately owned ranches most likely don’t allow public access.
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Thank you for the updated numbers.
 
Raisin Bran said:
Once again “just like a dog will eat its own vomit”, here you are.
Click to expand...
'Not sure what that means, but it rings disrespectfully. If it implies consistency, then yes ... just as the consistency of facing truth not wanting to accept, results in vile response.
BTW, the falsehoods and misconceptions in your post above are merely regurgitation of whatever UPOM passed to you. You provided no seriously researched factual information.
 
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Raisin Bran said:
In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”

I mis-spoke with that statement. In fact I wasn’t informed enough and had been given bits and pieces of mis-information twisted together to create a narrative that was not correct. I cannot say that I know more or different information than anyone else within this forum and again, I mis-spoke.

Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.

I fully support the UPOM and do not support APR. FULL STOP!

I am surprised by a few things.

1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.

2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!

3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.

4. APR gives out an annual Ken Burns American Heritage Prize in New York to a person they think that has done something special in the APR eyes.

Why New York if the actual trophy represents Montana land grab profits? Shouldn’t they celebrate it in the communities that they have started buying land up in? The trophy is simply a representation of Montana as a “thing” a wealthy person in New York or a foreign country can sit on their mantle and brag amongst their groups as their accomplishment conquest.

I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.

Here is my synopsis for what it is worth:

I have never, ever hunted on APR property. I will never, ever donate to APR BUT I will explore their properties in my selfish pursuit and most favorite thing to do, hunt. Here is why.

The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
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MIND BLOWN!! Thanks for opening my mind. Did you go straight to AP's website for these secrets?
 
Raisin Bran said:
The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.
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Fortunately, the heart of my 4th generation Montana values, and many others here, falls against UPOM and their cause. Whatever values you seem to espouse, they certainly don't seem very Montanan. Have you ever heard of confirmation bias? Doesn't sound like you approached this research project with much of an open mind.

A better resource for you would not be reaching out to UPOM directly, but asking the ranchers in the area they purportedly represent. I went to a BMA landowner appreciation dinner in Roundup in 2023 shortly after UPOM filed their lawsuit to take ownership over the public's wildlife, and asked many of the landowners there that directly border the Wilks' ranch if they had ever heard of UPOM. No surprise, they hadn't ever even heard of UPOM; and many of them are ranchers struggling to manage the large elk herd the Wilks are fostering. If UPOM really was "property owners of Montana" then why aren't these folks even aware of their existence?

You seem to think the people here are somehow uninformed, but you are sorely mistaken. Given your interest in reading though, I would also recommend reading the decisions issued by Judge Todd last year in their spurious lawsuit against Montana values, attached.
 

Attachments

Raisin Bran said:
In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”
Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.
1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.
2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!
3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.
I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.
There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
Click to expand...

So to address some of your "facts". First how would you know who is backing APR if they have no financial transparency and won't divulge their donor list? Answer, APR is a nonprofit (which addresses item 3 as well) and they are required to file an annual form 990 informational return. That lists out compensation of officers, and donations from anyone over $5,000. APR is transparent enough that you don't even have to go searching for their 990, they provide them on their website. Any financial transaction you care to look at is listed in black and white. Seems pretty transparent to me.

UPOM is not a nonprofit. They do not have to disclose any of their supporters. I think you would be amazed if you ever did see a list of them because it sure doesn't seem to be long term property owners from Montana. I just get a kick out of a group that is supposedly property owners who seem to constantly be trying to get laws passed telling property owners what they can and can't do with their own property. Conservation easements, who they can or can't sell to, etc.
 
Incidentally a quick internet search revealed that there are several landowners who own WAY more than 140k acres.
Wilkes brothers 350k
Galts 250k
Stan Kroenke 225k
Robert Holding (never even heard of him) 215k acres..

Plumb Creek tops the list but through great work by a variety of partners a lot of that is open to public access.
 
Nunyacreek said:
Incidentally a quick internet search revealed that there are several landowners who own WAY more than 140k acres.
Wilkes brothers 350k
Galts 250k
Stan Kroenke 225k
Robert Holding (never even heard of him) 215k acres..

Plumb Creek tops the list but through great work by a variety of partners a lot of that is open to public access.
Click to expand...
The actual level of billionaire-class ownership makes it seem kind of morbidly humorous that there’s so much political capital invested in manufacturing outrage to make a non-profit the boogey man responsible for all that is wrong in the state. Tragic that so many fall for it as well. Seems analogous to the bigger picture here in the US right now.
 
Nunyacreek said:
Incidentally a quick internet search revealed that there are several landowners who own WAY more than 140k acres.
Wilkes brothers 350k
Galts 250k
Stan Kroenke 225k
Robert Holding (never even heard of him) 215k acres..

Plumb Creek tops the list but through great work by a variety of partners a lot of that is open to public access.
Click to expand...
You forgot Rupert Murdoch, who owns the Matador south of Dillon. It’s over 400,000 acres. He’s an Australian and owns 3 times as much as APR. never heard anyone having a problem with that.
 
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