44mag.

[Preacher shaner]

I am picking up a new 44mag with a I am thinking 71/2 in barrel. I am only hunting deer in the east and maybe someday a black bear.
I was looking at the 180gr HP. Every thing I am reading the guys are talking 200 to 300 + gr pills. Is that much weight really needed to take bear and deer. I know shot what the gun likes and all that.
Am I wrong, would I not want a lighter bullet that's moving faster. Your still talking a 180 gr bullet. Am I off base on this.

 

[HandgunHunter]

The 240 weight works best. It is the weight the cartridge was designed for.

the 180 will expand very rapidly. They will be fine for lighter game like deer.

possible the 180 may fail on a shoulder shot.

Energy drops off quick from the 180 due to its lower BC.

just a pic of a 150 yard speed goat with a 44. Sierra 240

 

[HandgunHunter]

150 yard exit from a 240 Sierra. Larger than a golf ball.

 

[Preacher shaner]

Hey man thanks. That helps

 

[wytex]

I agree, 240 gr is what you want to shoot. I use my 44 mag lever action for hogs some years and it will put down a good sized boar with no issues, would be great on deer.
Spouse used his Colt Anaconda on a shiras moose, one shot kill.

 

[buffybr]

I've carried a .44 mag revolver for the past 45 years. I currently have 2 Ruger 7 1/2" Super Blackhawks and a 4" SS S&W. In all those years, the only animal that I shot with one of my .44 mags was a spot and stalk black bear. It was a one shot kill with a hard cast 240 grain bullet, which are the only bullets that I have ever carried in my .44 mags.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I am picking up a new 44mag with a I am thinking 71/2 in barrel. I am only hunting deer in the east and maybe someday a black bear.
I was looking at the 180gr HP. Every thing I am reading the guys are talking 200 to 300 + gr pills. Is that much weight really needed to take bear and deer. I know shot what the gun likes and all that.
Am I wrong, would I not want a lighter bullet that's moving faster. Your still talking a 180 gr bullet. Am I off base on this.

In the words of John Linebaugh "Velocity is a constantly diminishing variable."

With handguns, you just don't get the hydrostatic shock velocities. If you put two .429 holes in a critter with a handgun (entrance and exit), you've done about all you can do. Penetration is the first priority when using a handgun to hunt. Force = mass X acceleration. Acceleration being directly related to velocity and the fact that velocity is always getting smaller means when you place the most value on velocity, your force is going to diminish quicker. If you place the most value on mass, it doesn't diminish.

Anyways, if you go to customsixguns.com and read some of Linebaughs writings, he puts it a little better than I. For revolvers, big and heavy is more good.

 

[HandgunHunter]

There is a balancing act with bullet weight and velocity.

if you go too big it’s not going to have the velocity to drive through....and if you go too light and fast the bullet has an increased chance of failure.

bullet tech has advanced a lot over the years....lead bullets are no longer the king of handgun hunting.

 

[memtb]

When I was hunting with my .44, I was using 265 grain SWC’s pushed hard. I personally “would not” go less than a 220 grain jacket bullet for thin-skinned, lightly boned game (deer/antelope, ect.). If bear or elk/moose were on the docket, then I’d certainly go with no less than a 240 grain hard cast, wide metplat bullet. If you have the potential for taking a “large” black bear....I’d lean more towards 260 to 300 grain, hard cast SWC.

Here is a link to a very good website, that can provide a great deal of information about how Bullets perform on game. It gives much insight into ft/lbs. energy, momentum, wound cavity as related to bullet type, ect. memtb

http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

 

[Woodrow F Call]

There is a balancing act with bullet weight and velocity.

if you go too big it’s not going to have the velocity to drive through....and if you go too light and fast the bullet has an increased chance of failure.

bullet tech has advanced a lot over the years....lead bullets are no longer the king of handgun hunting.

Not really..... It may not accelerate as fast or reach as high a speed, but the momentum (mass X velocity) is what is going to punch through and mass isn't going away until the bullet hits something. The only way mass is a problem is that there is no velocity for the bullet to have any effect..... I'm sure it could be designed, but for all the bullets you are going to buy, this isn't going to be an issue. You might lose range just because the bullet isn't traveling fast enough in the first place. Any of the commercially available hard cast bullets for .44 Mag are going to penetrate, but the heavies will generally penetrate better. Hollow points might not open, but that's not a detriment to penetration.

The disadvantages of heavier bullets are recoil and lower muzzle velocities (working within pressure limits).

 

[HandgunHunter]

Not really..... It may not accelerate as fast or reach as high a speed, but the momentum (mass X velocity) is what is going to punch through and mass isn't going away until the bullet hits something. The only way mass is a problem is that there is no velocity for the bullet to have any effect..... I'm sure it could be designed, but for all the bullets you are going to buy, this isn't going to be an issue. You might lose range just because the bullet isn't traveling fast enough in the first place. Any of the commercially available hard cast bullets for .44 Mag are going to penetrate, but the heavies will generally penetrate better. Hollow points might not open, but that's not a detriment to penetration.

The disadvantages of heavier bullets are recoil and lower muzzle velocities (working within pressure limits).

As soon as it hits the animal....it has hit something....

 

[BAKPAKR]

Years ago, I shot some whitetails and black bears with 44s and various 240 grain hollow points. They worked fine. Fast forward 20 or more years and I would likely stay with 240 grains for deer and black bears but move to the Swift A-Frame.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

As soon as it hits the animal....it has hit something....

The point being that mass doesn't drop until a bullet comes apart.... if it does.

 

[FLS]

I’d stay with the 240 grain bullets. Swift A frame is about as good as it gets for handgun hunting bullets. I ve shot a good many hogs and whitetails with handguns, and it’s hard to beat a hard cast bullet for penetration, but I prefer a bullet that expands some while still penetrating deeply. The A frames do that well. I killed a 250 lb bear a couple of years ago with my .41 using a 210 grain A frame. 40 yard quartering shot, complement penetration, and he piled up within sight.

 

[Gunner46]

Granted I don't hunt with a pistol, but a lever action Ruger, and I have been successful with 180's. That said...I don't hunt with them any more. REASON? Not one of the first 5 mamainals I shot had a complete pass through. Went to 240's, not one has Not had double holes.

 

[RkyMtnELK]

Granted I don't hunt with a pistol, but a lever action Ruger, and I have been successful with 180's. That said...I don't hunt with them any more. REASON? Not one of the first 5 mamainals I shot had a complete pass through. Went to 240's, not one has Not had double holes.

Which brand 240 gr bullet do you like the best ? Soft point or hollow point ?

 

[Gunner46]

I'd like to say that I a shoot a Super Premo Whizz-Bang Ultra Max Blahh-Blahh, but the truth is it's just plain white box Winchester SP's. Occum's Razor.

 

[GlockZ]

Which brand 240 gr bullet do you like the best ? Soft point or hollow point ?

Between soft point and hollow point, they will both expand equally from what I have seen, so it makes no difference, personally I prefer a good hard cast bullet, doesn't expand but penetrates deep.

 

[buffybr]

In the words of John Linebaugh "Velocity is a constantly diminishing variable."

With handguns, you just don't get the hydrostatic shock velocities. If you put two .429 holes in a critter with a handgun (entrance and exit), you've done about all you can do. Penetration is the first priority when using a handgun to hunt. Force = mass X acceleration. Acceleration being directly related to velocity and the fact that velocity is always getting smaller means when you place the most value on velocity, your force is going to diminish quicker. If you place the most value on mass, it doesn't diminish.

Anyways, if you go to customsixguns.com and read some of Linebaughs writings, he puts it a little better than I. For revolvers, big and heavy is more good.

You lost me with your interpretations of Linebaugh's writings there Partner. The velocity of all bullets start to decrease the instant that the bullet leaves the barrel of the rifle or pistol. Hydraulic shock results when any moving object comes in contact with a liquid. Animal tissue is around 60% water. The amount of hydraulic shock is determined by the Energy of the moving object. It's also the bullet's Energy that drives the bullet into or through an animal. The Energy of a bullet is determined by it's velocity squared times it's weight, or mass.

I shoot my handguns (9 mm, .38/.357, .44 Spl & Mag, and .45 acp) just about every week, year long. I regularly test different bullets and loads, rifle and pistol, on gallon jugs filled with water. This isn't the most scientific test, but the bullets from all of these cartridges generate enough hydraulic shock to open up the plastic water jugs, with the fastest and heaviest bullets from the .44 magnum making the most spectacular splashes. However, the destruction of a water jug shot at 25 yards from a 240 grain bullet from a .44 magnum is dwarfed by the damage to a water jug shot at 100 yards with an 180 grain bullet from my .300 Weatherby! Bullet velocity trumps bullet weight.

I regularly shoot my pistols at steel plates. A 240 grain hard cast lead bullet from my .44 magnum will flatten the bullet to the size and shape of a nickel and depending on the hardness of the steel plate, it may make a slight dent in the steel plate. I once shot a 52 grain jacketed HP bullet at a 3/8" thick steel plate 25 yards away from me. The bullet put a hole completely through the steel plate that I could put my little finger through. Again, velocity trumps weight.

In all my hunting, I value accuracy ahead of everything else. A deer shot in the brain with a .22 LR bullet will die instantly, but an African Waterbuck antelope shot in the foot with a bullet from a .375 H&H will run off and may be lost. I've seen both happen (and I later put a 7 mm RM bullet in the chest of that waterbuck and finished it).

I previously posted that I had shot a black bear with a hard cast lead bullet from my .44 magnum pistol. I also shot another black bear with a 220 grain cast lead bullet from my .45 acp pistol. Both of those bullets penetrated into the lungs of those bears, and neither bullet passed completely through the bears, and both bears died within 20 yards of where they were standing when I shot them.

Even with rifle hunting I am also not hung up on getting complete bullet pass throughs on animals. I have never lost an elk that I shot at, and of the 35 elk that I have shot, only two had complete pass throughs. One was a Bear broadhead and the other was a 168 grain Barnes TSX from my .300 Wby and that bull only ran 3 steps and fell dead. One of the quickest elk kills that I've had was also one of my largest 6x6 bulls that simply dropped in his tracks when I shot him. The 117 grain Sierra GameKing bullet from my .257 Ackley hit a rib going in, completely shredded his lungs, and didn't cut the rib cage on the far side.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

You lost me with your interpretations of Linebaugh's writings there Partner. The velocity of all bullets start to decrease the instant that the bullet leaves the barrel of the rifle or pistol. Hydraulic shock results when any moving object comes in contact with a liquid. Animal tissue is around 60% water. The amount of hydraulic shock is determined by the Energy of the moving object. It's also the bullet's Energy that drives the bullet into or through an animal. The Energy of a bullet is determined by it's velocity squared times it's weight, or mass.

I shoot my handguns (9 mm, .38/.357, .44 Spl & Mag, and .45 acp) just about every week, year long. I regularly test different bullets and loads, rifle and pistol, on gallon jugs filled with water. This isn't the most scientific test, but the bullets from all of these cartridges generate enough hydraulic shock to open up the plastic water jugs, with the fastest and heaviest bullets from the .44 magnum making the most spectacular splashes. However, the destruction of a water jug shot at 25 yards from a 240 grain bullet from a .44 magnum is dwarfed by the damage to a water jug shot at 100 yards with an 180 grain bullet from my .300 Weatherby! Bullet velocity trumps bullet weight.

I regularly shoot my pistols at steel plates. A 240 grain hard cast lead bullet from my .44 magnum will flatten the bullet to the size and shape of a nickel and depending on the hardness of the steel plate, it may make a slight dent in the steel plate. I once shot a 52 grain jacketed HP bullet at a 3/8" thick steel plate 25 yards away from me. The bullet put a hole completely through the steel plate that I could put my little finger through. Again, velocity trumps weight.

In all my hunting, I value accuracy ahead of everything else. A deer shot in the brain with a .22 LR bullet will die instantly, but an African Waterbuck antelope shot in the foot with a bullet from a .375 H&H will run off and may be lost. I've seen both happen (and I later put a 7 mm RM bullet in the chest of that waterbuck and finished it).

I previously posted that I had shot a black bear with a hard cast lead bullet from my .44 magnum pistol. I also shot another black bear with a 220 grain cast lead bullet from my .45 acp pistol. Both of those bullets penetrated into the lungs of those bears, and neither bullet passed completely through the bears, and both bears died within 20 yards of where they were standing when I shot them.

Even with rifle hunting I am also not hung up on getting complete bullet pass throughs on animals. I have never lost an elk that I shot at, and of the 35 elk that I have shot, only two had complete pass throughs. One was a Bear broadhead and the other was a 168 grain Barnes TSX from my .300 Wby and that bull only ran 3 steps and fell dead. One of the quickest elk kills that I've had was also one of my largest 6x6 bulls that simply dropped in his tracks when I shot him. The 117 grain Sierra GameKing bullet from my .257 Ackley hit a rib going in, completely shredded his lungs, and didn't cut the rib cage on the far side.

I was saying the same thing about velocity. Velocity drops as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel and keeps on dropping. Mass doesn't change. The equation for energy squares velocity but not mass. That being said, a big slow bullet still can do as much or more as a small light bullet within the same parameters of cartridge. The point really being is that energy doesn't equate to killing power.... especially when the velocities are relatively low like in a handgun.

My comment wasn't implying that you had to have two holes, but when shooting with a handgun, if you get two holes..... that's about the best you can do. I wasn't implying that you couldn't kill something without an exit wound.

There is a different effect going on with your water jugs. With your jugs, water is being displaced by the bullet and the water has to go somewhere, it's going to push its way out of the jug, if there isn't enough "vent" for the water to escape, it's going to burst the jug. You might find it interesting to shoot the bottles with/without the caps on and then maybe even make the hole in the top bigger. I might be surprised too.

With tissue, it's similar, but in a critter, you have alot more room for air to compress before bursting. Plus the body and tissues are more elastic that a plastic bottle.

I'm not an expert though.