2014 Alaska Moose

[thecrittergitter]

And also, the meat will not come back on us, we have already had that confirmed. The transfer of possession forms along with numerous emails where Tom blatantly lied to us and the State Trooper have put 100% of it on him.

 

[Beendare]

OK.

I couldn't tell by the story some of the exact details. Some of these deals can be a little sketchy when someone is offering you a deal- all kinds of quirky circumstances. Hey, I know...and said as much Tom Shankster is not the guy you want to hunt with - even if he offers you a great deal which I suspect is the case. I'm surprised the Ak F&G hasn't done a sting on him yet...though to my knowledge he has done nothing illegal...just overbooking and screwing people.

And I don't know you...and whether you are a guy you can drop in the wilderness, sounds like you are. Many aren't. I used to guide and we got all sorts of nimrods that couldn't hunt their way out of a paper bag....and couldn't hit a broadside cow at 75 yds with a scoped rifle....but everything was always the outfitters fault! I point it out because its easy to talk tough about doing these hunts...but you and I both know....stuff happens and you have to be prepared to take care of yourself....some guys just aren't comfortable in those situations....which is fine...just be honest with yourself.

You will admit- that country is no place for someone without woodsmans skills!

As I said, I'm sure the guys lounging in camp were PO'd at me flying out first....but shoot it was their own fault they had days to prepare. It would have taken them 1/2 hr to get ready and we had a tight window of clear weather before dark. I'm not trying to be an azz but I really don't have a lot of sympathy for those guys. If there is anyway my story will be of use to you I would be happy to help- just PM me.

 

[thecrittergitter]

I certainly agree, you better be prepared to "live off the land" if need be when doing any hunt in Alaska.

And yes, the lying and screwing people over is the name of the game at that camp, but illegal activity was certainly evident this year. I feel really bad for the hunters that have already booked 2015 hunts.............good chance all their deposit money is going to an attorney right now.

Has to be going somewhere because he isn't using it to pay his guides and packers.......

 

[elkantlers]

I know the wheels of justice turn slow, but how can he be allowed to book hunts for 2015. Sounds like there is plenty of evidence to shut him down.

 

[havgunwilltravel]

I know the wheels of justice turn slow, but how can he be allowed to book hunts for 2015. Sounds like there is plenty of evidence to shut him down.

This ^^

 

[genesis273]

As with anything, one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. No doubt that most guides are top notch. But after reading this over the last few months makes it even more clear to me why I want to hunt DIY. I suppose I'll never hunt a critter or state where hunting with a guide is a law.
Again CG, it makes me sick of all that was lost (meat, antlers, time well spent, money, etc).

 

[thecrittergitter]

I know the wheels of justice turn slow, but how can he be allowed to book hunts for 2015. Sounds like there is plenty of evidence to shut him down.

believe me there is plenty of evidence........and yes they turn slow but hopefully they can get it done soon as possible.

The thing I worry about with the 2015 guys,I think he knows he is in serious trouble and I'm betting that all the 2015 deposits are just to pay a lawyer..........they may never see a dime back and may never see a hunt either...... Who knows.

All I do know is a guy is a real dirtbag for treating hunters the way he does and then even worse, to lie to the public about why the troopers were in camp. To make up a story that my buddy and I were possibly doing something illegal is utterly ridiculous. Thankfully the troopers had visited us in the field and saw everything we did. In fact was quite impressed how clean our carcasses actually were for a couple DIY guys.

I just hope more guys don't get ripped off here, too many people spend their entire life savings for hunts like this. To sleep in Walmart tents, not have food, few experienced guides, eating meat that has sat in the sun collecting flies for weeks............one of the guides actually got his azz chewed by Tom because he was going to dispose of a caribou hind that was covered in fly eggs and bird shit............Tom says, that is plenty good still, you leave that alone.......Not exactly what I want to eat

 

[mdhunter61]

I sheep hunted with Tom Shankster in 2010 and I can see why guys have a bad taste after hunting with him. No doubt Tom is a bad outfitter- overpromising, unorganized...but some of the things you mentioned are just part of being dropped off in Alaska- stuff happens.

I bought a sheep hunt at the WSF banquet in Sacramento in 2010 for $6k- what a deal...well maybe not.


Its a long story but the RD version;
I flew in from Magrath with 2 other hunters- both rifle [I was bowhunting] and there were about 10 guys in camp with only a couple guides- a big mess and they had all been weathered in for 3 days. I was promised a certain Bow guide and first thing i did was confirm this with Tom and then i met the guide outside and told him to GET EVERYTHING READY TO GO- all of his gear and food ready to go and on the runway. In the meantime, while everyone was in the main tent relaxing in their longjohns drinking beer- we got it together even tho i just flew in. Tom couldn't fly due to weather. As it goes in AK, shit weather magically cleared at about 10 pm that night and while everyone else was drunk in their longjohns we were packed and ready to go so when i said," tom its clear" he said who is ready right now...'We are" he said load up and we flew out first- pissing off many to no end i'm sure, BTW I wasn't in head to toe Sitka gear.

I flew in after my guide to find half of our dome tents rainfly was shredded- crap equipment- and he was trying to fix it. I had seem remnants of another abandoned tent 1/4 mile down river flying in so I walked down, salvaged some of that shredded tent and we jury rigged and duct taped it over our tent.

The sheep hunting sucked as it was an open unit- over the counter tag.......but after a few days of tough hunting we found one legal ram and sat on him for a few days trying to get a bow shot. It was wide open. A couple times we got stuck climbing on rocks we had no business scaling without rock climbing gear- I wasn't digging that - tough country. I don't mind hiking but that was just stupid. About 5 days in we had 6 different planes circling the legal ram and the guide must have told me 20 times, if i don't shoot that ram soon with a rifle someone is going to come in and shoot him right out from underneath us- so i capitulated.. I hadn't shot a rifle in probably 20 years and the steep uphill 240 yd shot with a .338 scoped me but good!

When we got back to Toms main camp there were still guys that hadn't hunted yet- a cluster..... I went out back to look around an the meat he had been using for camp had fly larvae in the ripped game bags- a bit disappointing though cooked it probably didn't make much difference- tasted fine though now my appetite for it was waning..

Toms outfit is totally unorganized and i would say- stay away. I'm a big boy and its my fault for not doing more homework on the guy even at WSF auction.

Besides the Tom Shankster thing- i think there is something that needs to be said.

WARNING: Some of these ARE HARD CORE hunts....and not for the faint at heart. If you are getting dropped in the woods in the middle of nowhere- stuff happens...so be ready for that. I'm not making excuses for Toms crummy operation...but I get the feeling some of the guys complaining just don't get what is involved here.

Some of the "can't fly because of weather" in your post.....truly is can't fly with a supercub. If you have ever flown in a Supercub...you know what I mean....if its crummy weather you feel like you are in a kite. Almost all of the flying in Ak is line of sight and weather can change from clear to socked in in 20 minutes....not good when you have a 1 hr flight.

When you get dropped in Ak you have to have your big boy pants on. No amount of bit ching or moaning will improve the situation so when you plan one of these hunts- bring your glass half full mood- because things go wrong. I have no doubt many of toms clients got screwed but some of the stuff that happened- HAPPENS- when being dropped off in Ak. You run into difficulties, a guy has to expect that....

You defied the odds and harvested 2 moose- congrats, its not the usual for sure and Tom has to get some credit for that.The whole meat thing may or may not come back on YOU- lets hope not as it sounds like tom should have got you but in the end...its your responsibility, That meat is supposed to come out first before racks and everything- thats the game laws in Ak you agree to when getting a license.

I agree with only a very small part of your post, that stuff happens in Alaska. I'm betting that most of the paying clients in Tom's camp paid for guided hunts, and when you put out the coin for a guided hunt, you darn well have the right to expect that a lot LESS of the unorganized crap happens.

Crittergitter and his buddy can take all the credit for getting their moose, Tom didn't deserve any of the credit. He didn't find their moose, he found a good spot and seems to be in the process of ravaging it of game animals. Why give Tom any of the credit, when his unorganized practices allowed over 1,000 pounds of game meat to go to waste??

On a do-it-yourself hunt like crittergitter and his friend did, stuff happens for sure. But if an outfitter can't reliably service the number of hunters or camps he books, and game meat is wasted as a result, he should be penalized to the full extent of the law. This is the very definition of WANTON WASTE.

It would be nice if all of the hunting shows and conventions were able to police outfits like this and bar them from operating at the hunting shows and dinner circuit, but that would probably cost more coin than they have to spend.

Congrats again to crittergitter and his buddy for making the best of an awful situation. I hope I soon learn that Tom Shankster can never provide professional services in Alaska again.

 

[Beendare]

I think my true feelings on these dirt bag outfitters doesn't come through on my posts as I try to be a positive guy, and I'm prepared for stuff to go wrong so it rarely shocks me. I can tell you if I was sitting in a camp for 3 days with no guide I would be on my sat phone to the AKFG.

Everybody up there knows what's goingon- the FG guys, the transporter,guides he isn't paying, , I'm shocked they haven't shut him down years ago

 

[anchorriver]

Yea, I just joined the site to follow this case. As an Alaskan this is just too much. Did I count right at three wasted moose? Wow. I've seen people ticketed for not scraping the ribs clean. If this goes un prosecuted something is really wrong.

The strong trend towards DIY hunts, and moose in general is simply being abused by several planners/outfitters. Why this clown Tom is still in business makes no sense at all.

I'd suggest as many as possible call in and voice their concern over this one.

This was a tough year for saving meat anyway. I was alone when I killed my bull and 45 miles from the take out with three portages..AND WARM WEATHER. I paddled and packed three days straight to get it out.. and every night I had to spread it out, and cool it as best I could. I saved it all.. I also had two raft blow outs I had to patch and allow to cure... yea, and a self inflicted knee wound down to the patella tendon(my fault, moving too quick)

When I hear a guy(Tom) makes NO effort on getting three moose out?.. My suggestion probably isn't legal to post. Sounds like he is simply greedy and plans too many hunts to service. He needs a rest... like all Fall, and a little jail time.

 

[anchorriver]

well this case disturbs me beyond words. I spent time on the phone today with Mike Spindler(907-575-6686, and 907-456-0331), and I intend to keep rattling cages until I get some answers. It's not OK to leave three moose to rot. It's criminal..


Fact is, it's easy to violate the law, and extremely tough to prosecute it. F and G told me there used to be three pilots working these cases.. now down to one, and to get another guy trained and in the air will take two years.

March second in Fairbanks the

Western Interior subsistence advisory counsel meets.

8:30-5

Melinda Burke has details(907-786-3885). Anyone attending can voice their concerns about this and other matters. I plan to attend.

Brad H(sorry, I missed the rest of the last name) would be very interested in any first hand accounts of this case. 907-883-9409

It's exhausting to make these things happen, but this is simply unacceptable. If you put people in the bush hunting you need to be able to get their animals and them back in a timely manner.

PLEASE take the time to have your voice heard.. this needs to stop..

if it was an isolated incident, then well, everyone makes mistakes. That doesn't sound like what is happening here.

speak up.

 

[thecrittergitter]

Anchorriver, I appreciate your concern and very glad to hear someone else filing a complaint. Basically at this time, your comment is exactly right, the more people that call to complain, the better chance that someone will open their eyes.

Tom has been going to the shows and conventions and telling people a completely different version of the events that happened in camp and in fact, has the audacity to blame all his camp problems on me Laughable, but that is in fact what he is doing. Pathological liars get to a point where they cant even remember the stories they told. He even has the nerve to claim to people that the reason our moose went to waste was because we deboned it Said that is the worst thing you can do to game meat is debone it. Again, laughable.

Anchorriver, three moose is not even the extent of it. Much more game went to waste than the three moose I saw go to waste. Caribou, sheep, and more moose are confirmed wasted.

It's amazing the good outfitters that get drilled for very minor offenses and then this garbage goes on year after year with Tom's camp and he is still in business. Tom's reputation speaks for itself. However, due to the fact that he has hired an attorney that makes his living supporting dirtbags like him..........who knows what will happen.

There have been 6 letters written to the commercial services board. I understand that seems like enough, but anyone else that would call or write to voice their concern would be very beneficial. Tom may know he is going down but he is going to rape and pillage that area on his way out if something doesn't happen. He is taking roughly 12-14 sheep a year in a pretty small area. Won't take long for that to make a substantial impact. If anyone has a report, either this year or years prior that should be noted, please do. Its the only way dirtbags quit being dirtbags.

Commercial Services Board
Cindy Hansen
907-465-2543
She is the Licensing Examiner for the Guides and Transporters

Or Lee Strout who is the Investigator for complaints.
907-269-8187

Would be great if Beendare could share his story with the board......

 

[fishing4sanity]

I've been wondering about this case. Thanks for the update and post new info when something happens. Good luck Matt, hopefully the system works and takes care of a bad operation.

 

[anchorriver]

Critter getter

I got busy with getting my boat ready for the salmon season, and lost touch with how this went. To be honest with you, when I heard you deboned the meat immediately I cringed. There are times you just have no choice, but it does make saving it a LOT more difficult. I like to leave it on the bone a minimum of three days..at least in and out of rigor, and a couple cool nights. This year was the first year I ever have deboned a moose in the field. It was on the fourth day, after three portages(by myself) and my raft got a 6 inch gash in it. I patched it, and while waiting for it to cure, I deboned the meat in case the patch didn't hold..my second option was get it all in the one raft and get out. Once you bone it, it;s chunks of meat that are very difficult to hang, and bacteria starts to work hard in a bag of chunks. I've hung quarters for two, three weeks...even with warm days.. it crusts over at night and tolerates many days... game bags of chunks.. doesn't make it.

I still think he needed to get there quicker than he did.. but I do strongly agree with leaving the meat on the bone..it's heavier.. but like I said.. by myself at 56 I got a moose out on the bone...(three portages, and 50 river miles)that's what saved mine...cause this was a warm fall.. the one day after I boned it is when I almost lost it.

 

[bowhunterjae]

Wow! What a great story. Congratulations on a Great Hunt.

 

[beretta682e]

Great pictures.

Was in camp with you guys. Send me a pm.

Thanks

 

[AkBearHunter]

Glad to hear you 2 won't be charged with wanton waste but it's a damn shame that all that meat went to waste. Shankster needs to be held accountable for his actions (more like inaction).


Were you guys planning on doing a shoulder mount of your bulls? Since you lost the capes I might be able to help you with that if I happen to tag a bull this fall.

 

[Paul j m]

Hell of a read and congratulations on 2 great Bulls, disheartening to think that people operate like this and certainly makes it aware to people like myself that are looking at possible options in the USA to do your homework and utilise as many resources as possible to ensure you get what you expect, and after reading all this you find a post like the one previous to this where someone is willing to help and supply a cape if needed,what a bloody good bloke AKBear hunter you seem like the person we all hope to meet when Doing a hunt.

 

[highmountian]

Wow, what a story and great info. Congrats on your two great Bulls! Hopefully he gets his ass handed to him. Grrrrrr.

 

[thecrittergitter]

Glad to hear you 2 won't be charged with wanton waste but it's a damn shame that all that meat went to waste. Shankster needs to be held accountable for his actions (more like inaction).


Were you guys planning on doing a shoulder mount of your bulls? Since you lost the capes I might be able to help you with that if I happen to tag a bull this fall.

I was planning on a shoulder mount so I was real bummed the meat and cape was ruined. More ticked off that all that meat didn't make it out as a new cape is attainable, 1500 lbs of moose meat is not.........

Thank you for your offer and I'll let you know. Supposedly I have a bead on a new cape but that hasn't been confirmed yet either. And until ding dong is charged, my antlers will be sitting collecting dust in the Alaska Fish and Game office.......

Great of you to offer! Thanks again!