WYGF March 18 updated proposals

[Deleted member 16014]

Think of all the moose and sheep points WY sold that are worthless. In addition, now there is not even a random tag at all. They need a bonus draw, period. Preference points no longer work due to the allocation cut, population management goals, and point holder levels. WY needs to fix the system or face litigation, as they continue to sale worthless points and defraud a bunch of point holder who no longer have a chance at a tag in a normal lifetime. It’s not like these points are being sold for a negligible amount.

Yes, it would be absolutely silly to buy them, unless hedging that they switch to bonus in the future. Anyone who can't take the 30 seconds to figure that out doesn't deserve much sympathy.

 

[rogerthat]

Yes, it would be absolutely silly to buy them, unless hedging that they switch to bonus in the future. Anyone who can't take the 30 seconds to figure that out doesn't deserve much sympathy.

How about all the lower point holders that are going to be wasting there money on an application? I wouldn’t say it’s really simple to know that. I didn’t really understand the 4 tags for there to be a random tag until last year. (forgot again this year). There are going to be a pile of applications and points bought. Wait and see. I understand they are dumbasses for buying them but what’s the line between fraud and taking advantage of dumbasses. This is the first point system I have seen completely fail. In private sector people go to jail for similar scenarios.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

How about all the lower point holders that are going to be wasting there money on an application? I wouldn’t say it’s really simple to know that.

I just don't agree...which is fine, we can disagree. I can't imagine spending money on a point strategy to draw a sheep tag -- one of, if not the only one I might have in a lifetime -- but not know beforehand how it works.

I didn’t really understand the 4 tags for there to be a random tag until last year. (forgot again this year). There are going to be a pile of applications and points bought. Wait and see. I understand they are dumbasses for buying them but what’s the line between fraud and taking advantage of dumbasses. This is the first point system I have seen completely fail. In private sector people go to jail for similar scenarios.

Nothing is stopping anyone from bringing that concern forward.

 

[wytex]

There really is no problem as they portray it.
It is all about LO getting more hunts to sell... period.
Landowners and outfitters are caudled here.

Wrong , there is a problem with the herd here. However it was brought on by LOs who wanted years back to grow trophy bull elk.
Herds into the thousands gather, several hundred are pretty common to see after the season opens.
Problem is they like certain parts of the area more than others, due to past LOs practices allowing elk to winter.
If they would move around some a ton more would get taken.

WG&F just needs to pony up enough $$$ to get meaningful access instead of paying damages. Getting the herd down is the key.

 

[seeth07]

Wrong , there is a problem with the herd here. However it was brought on by LOs who wanted years back to grow trophy bull elk.
Herds into the thousands gather, several hundred are pretty common to see after the season opens.
Problem is they like certain parts of the area more than others, due to past LOs practices allowing elk to winter.
If they would move around some a ton more would get taken.

WG&F just needs to pony up enough $$$ to get meaningful access instead of paying damages. Getting the herd down is the key.

Or maybe just perhaps stop issuing damage $$$? That would help solve the problem too. You don't want the elk to damage your land? Great, allow someone access and they will learn to not stick around in great numbers on your property.

 

[rogerthat]

I just don't agree...which is fine, we can disagree. I can't imagine spending money on a point strategy to draw a sheep tag -- one of, if not the only one I might have in a lifetime -- but not know beforehand how it works.

Nothing is stopping anyone from bringing that concern forward.

Definitely not singling you out as I agree with you but I can’t imagine buying cryptocurrency schemes on social media yet people are doing it. It just strikes me that the current system in Wyoming is probably toeing the line as fraud. You’re literally buying nothing.

 

[Letthemgrow]

I can't imagine spending money on a point strategy to draw a sheep tag -- one of, if not the only one I might have in a lifetime -- but not know beforehand how it works.

There are a lot of people who understood how it worked for 2 decades or more . . . until they decided to change how it works.

I agree with you going forward, if someone is buying in from 0 starting this year then I guess they deserve it.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

How about all the lower point holders that are going to be wasting there money on an application? I wouldn’t say it’s really simple to know that. I didn’t really understand the 4 tags for there to be a random tag until last year. (forgot again this year). There are going to be a pile of applications and points bought. Wait and see. I understand they are dumbasses for buying them but what’s the line between fraud and taking advantage of dumbasses. This is the first point system I have seen completely fail. In private sector people go to jail for similar scenarios.

Maybe the proposed banana ram tags will only a few points to draw.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

There are a lot of people who understood how it worked for 2 decades or more . . . until they decided to change how it works.

I agree with you going forward, if someone is buying in from 0 starting this year then I guess they deserve it.

They bought a chance, not a right. Supply has been tremendously diminished. I will likely never draw as a resident before I die.

Life is hard and the world is mean.

 

[rogerthat]

They bought a chance, not a right. Supply has been tremendously diminished. I will likely never draw as a resident before I die.

Life is hard and the world is mean.

I will start a new thread not to pollute this one but what are people buying now? Zero points, you buy a point. What are you buying? What is Wyoming selling these people?

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

You never know who will or won't apply for a license, or how the seasons will change in the future. I'd rather spend money on a point every year (granted I'm a resident) and maybe someday have to opportunity to hunt sheep or moose, than wish I had bought points all those years.

 

[BuzzH]

Or maybe just perhaps stop issuing damage $$$? That would help solve the problem too. You don't want the elk to damage your land? Great, allow someone access and they will learn to not stick around in great numbers on your property.

You clearly haven't a clue how the damage claims work here.

They have to allow access to get damage claims.

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe the proposed banana ram tags will only a few points to draw.

There may be better than banana rams if a person has a clue...most don't.

 

[Archer86]

I will start a new thread not to pollute this one but what are people buying now? Zero points, you buy a point. What are you buying? What is Wyoming selling these people?

A dream to strike gold just like the powerball someone has got to win.

What even more impressive is 2000 people bought in last year can't fix stupid but we can take their money

 

[seeth07]

You clearly haven't a clue how the damage claims work here.

They have to allow access to get damage claims.

Perhaps I don't but my response was to what Wytex stated on needing to spend money for access instead of paying damages. If access is required to get damages I guess I don't see the problem?

 

[BuzzH]

Perhaps I don't but my response was to what Wytex stated on needing to spend money for access instead of paying damages. If access is required to get damages I guess I don't see the problem?

Paying for damage and paying for access are 2 different things.

Many ranchers don't claim damage and they don't provide access either. The point being made is that if the financial incentives were increased for access, some would likely start allowing hunting.

If ranchers want to claim damage, then it forces them to allow access.

Of course, anyone that puts 1 second of thought into elk over abundance issues knows that the problem lies with ranches that don't care about harboring a few thousand elk. They don't claim damage, don't allow access for hunting, and the herds simply continue to expand.

Increasing hunting pressure on the surrounding areas that allow hunting make the harboring worse. Fewer elk will be killed, law of diminishing returns is going to happen.

 

[seeth07]

Of course, anyone that puts 1 second of thought into elk over abundance issues knows that the problem lies with ranches that don't care about harboring a few thousand elk. They don't claim damage, don't allow access for hunting, and the herds simply continue to expand.

Again, I don't see the problem. Rancher is providing good habitat to harbor the elk, rancher is content with this, herd is growing. I like the idea of having more elk. Private landowner helping to do this is fantastic expecting nothing in return. I'm sure the problem though is them wanting more tags to sell more hunts?

 

[Treeshark]

I'm sure the problem though is them wanting more tags to sell more hunts?

That certainly seems like the most obvious solution.

 

[wytex]

Or maybe just perhaps stop issuing damage $$$? That would help solve the problem too. You don't want the elk to damage your land? Great, allow someone access and they will learn to not stick around in great numbers on your property.

Those great numbers just move to another property. It is a revolving door in this area.
There are too many elk here, very simple. Not enough good habitat to support the huge herds- they must go to private.

So don't pay the LOs that allow access? Not going to happen. This issue was brought on by a few LOs not all.
They need more access and more $$$ is the only way for some.
Buzz stated it great, some want more elk and some allow access- some do not and will not regardless of how much damage they do.
The herd needs to be knocked back, there can be too many elk.

 

[BuzzH]

Again, I don't see the problem. Rancher is providing good habitat to harbor the elk, rancher is content with this, herd is growing. I like the idea of having more elk. Private landowner helping to do this is fantastic expecting nothing in return. I'm sure the problem though is them wanting more tags to sell more hunts?

Ever heard of neighboring ranches? The problem doesn't stay on the ranches that don't mind hundreds of elk. More tags don't matter to most ranches that harbor elk, they dont want tags, dont allow access. Not everyone that owns a ranch hunts.

Not surprised you dont see the problem, you don't live it and it's tough to see when you vacation here once every 5 years.