Ithica, I dont get it with this whole wold thing you seem to be on. as for the tidbit on the wisconsin deer you posted, there is a lot more to the story. 1, there is not a deer overpopulation where the DNR has allowed what we call a T-zone that allows us to shoot does for free. The DNR needs to realize that most hunters will not shoot more than 1 doe if we have to pay 12$ each for them. Anytime they turn a hunt unit into a t-zone the deer population is just fine afterwards. The areas that have overpopulation is because of the money the DNR feels they should get from hunters to shoot does.
The other thing is what the DNR calls overpopulation in the first place is unrealistic. Due to the trend of warmer dryer winters the woods can handle higher populations in the first place. Trust me, if the DNR here had it there way a guy who would hunt for 4 days would see about about 10 deer all days combined. Thats coming from my freinds who hunt in areas that are "goal population" its a joke, i have to admit in all the states i hunted my home state is the biggest joke for wildlife management and laws.
Did you know if you were eating lunch on you tailgate and had your gun leaning against the truck they will fin you 290$ and have the right to sieze the gun and truck?
Did you know our bows need to be cased in any vehicle including on an atv? they finnaly dropped the one that said you have to have your bow cased at legal hunting end time, and that meant taking your case into the woods with you to walk out with it cased.
Trust me, dont beleive too much of anything wisconsin DNR has to say,, its all about money. So what are they going to do this year? raise the resident tags 20% . But the nonres tags are lets see, 1/3 of iowas, 1/2 of Illinois, 50$ less than MN, and less than MI but dont know off hand but thats the list of the surrounding states. So lets let the states next to us get out cheap but we have to pay through the nose to hunt thiers. real smart Wi.
And believe me, there is not a population problem of deer in any wolf area in wisconsin.
And yes, wolves need to live too, but they are far from endangered. Just because there are not a shitload of them in wisconsin, Mt, UT, WY, and other states dont mean they are endangered. There are tons of them in canada and alaska where they dont compete with men to hunt. I dont see cougar here in wisconsin, so should they be an endangered species here? get real
Just so you know who is behind most of the wolf project here in wisconsin, its anti-hunters. They think its fine for wolves to kill deer but man shouldnt. Deer hunting in my stste is bigger than in any other state, its a tradition that almost closes schools in the north. We dont need or want wolves, in fact you see all kinds of "no Wolf " bumper stickers here.
I will not respond to anymore wolf topics,its not worth the debate. i will kill any one i see on my property like i would a coyote as they are getting closer and have been seen in the area at times. I will kill them and burn the carcass to eliminate any chances of a radio transmitter being on it. Thats my story and i'm sticking to it. Sorry but there is not convincing me otherwise that wisconsin or any other hunter populated state need wolves.
Cat, "Are you telling me tahat a wolf is going to kill a old cow elk before it kills her calf standing next to her...You need to get out more.........."
No, that's not what I'm telling you. One of the things the Yellowstone studies are finding out is that wolves are killing a lot of old cows. Cows that are too old to be having calves. Maybe you need to get out more, Cat. Old cows don't have calves any more. Ever hear of an old dry cow? It's good to get rid of them.
Before you and Schmalts get too excited, I stated my position on wolves. Try reading it real slow.
But there's no way around the ESA, so you might as well get used to it.
And there's no doubt there's a big deer population explosion going on in Wis. and states around it and the hunters aren't making much of a dent in it. As for Wis. being a big hunting state, Schmalts, I spent a lot of years hunting in PA., so I know all about big deer hunting states. In PA they actually do close schools on the first day of deer season. It's a state holiday.
With all those hunters in Wis. I'm surprised you can't put enough political pressure on the gummint to get wolves delisted. There oughta be a way to do it.
Funny that all the states around Wis. are claiming deer overpopulation too, Schmalts. But I suppose you and your buddies who can't find deer know more about it than the DNR. Maybe if you'd get off those ATVs and get your bow uncased you'd see some.
And $12 to shoot a doe and get 40 or 50 lbs of meat sounds like a good price. What do you think a doe permit should cost? How much do you spend on your ATV and gas for your truck when you go hunting? I wish doe permits in Idaho only cost $12!
And Schmalts, the reason I got into this topic was because Jack made a claim that was ridiculous and I called him on it. Go back and read the early posts. If what he said was true there'd hardly be a cow left in North Wisconsin.
Ithica, if the DNR here feels like they have a overpopulation "problem" doe tags need to be free or no one will bother with more than one. We just dont get off on killing does, its just not as fun once you kill a shitload of deer in your life, and we kill more deer here some years than some states have live on hoof. As far as ATV's i dont use them to hunt anything, just to pull one when i do, on private property only. I have 3 and would never even think of taking one elk hunting like some lazy asses. Heres a picture of me the "no deer seeing ATV drivin MOFO" LOL, heres a pic of my ATV...didnt take wolves to do this either. Oh, and this was only gun season one day, Bow season is 4 months long and a lot of deer died. I usually wouldnt mention such a day because its no big deal here. Heres what the DNR gets when its free doe shooting, lucky#7
Get real buzz. Theres 100$ sitting in front of me in that picture if i paid to cure what the so called pro's called a deer population problem. I dont get off shooting does so i wouldnt pay for them, And neither would you if you were in my shoes. If you were able to kill a buch of deer easy as this you wouldnt think its any fun, and no one else i hunt with does so thats why they make it free once in a while. Why do i bitch if the wolves kill the deer if hunters wont? because wolves dont manage herds as well as hunters can, they dont let buck fawns live to take a doe instead, they dont know when they killed enough, They dont play well with livestock, they dont play well with hunting dogs, and i dont like them.
I never said the DNR should always have free doe tags, only when they have a problem selling them. I see you guys are just starting to look into everything i say to find some stupid way of throwing it back, so adios on this post
Schmalts, I aint trying to make you look bad, but Christ, I pay $23 each for doe/fawn deer/antelope tags, AS A RESIDENT in Wyoming. I cant remember what they were in MT, but I'd guess around $15.
I totally think that a wt doe is worth $12. Plus, you're funding the fish and game (that you're bitching about not doing a good job). Well, I tell you what, what do you expect when you pay biologists less than a manager of a Mcdonalds?
Look at those doe tags as a contribution, plus you get some shooting in and a pile of good meat. Head to the grocery store and see if you have as much fun and get more for your money.
I think you need to look at what you're griping about a little closer, the view from here is, your whining awefully hard about nothing.
If you want better bucks in Wisconsin, tell people to stop killing them when they're all 1.5 years old. I guarandamntee you that IS something to bitch about. But, as per usual, its easier to blame the wolves, biologists, the neighbor, the boogey man....etc.
schmalts, I was just razzing you a little. Didn't mean to start anything. I can somewhat agree with what you are referring to when you said it takes the fun out of it. Been there done that in a different way. I do however alwys see on these boards that the wolf should be wiped out and let the hunters control the herds. Seems to me that a combination of hunters and wolves are not controlling it. Just an opinion from what I am reading above.
Schmalts, You don't know when you're well off. We pay a lot more than $12 for a doe tag in most Western states. I'd look at it as cheap meat. Where else ya gonna get meat that cheap? Sounds like you have hunters who don't want to kill does unless it's free, but they don't want wolves killing them either. Don't you have people in Wis. who are always bitchin' about how much everything costs? Well, $12 for the meat you'd get out of the smallest doe in your pile is a lot cheaper than anything you can buy at a store.
And where else ya gonna get the kind of recreation, entertainment and payoff in one day you get for a $12 doe tag? Ever go to a movie for a couple of hours?
What, exactly, do you want anyway? $12 is too expensive. If it's free and you can shoot all you want it's no fun. You don't want the wolves to have any deer to eat, but you don't want to kill them yourself. Sounds like you're a hard guy to satisfy!
Your not Just not getting the point i guess. Would you kill prarie dogs if you had to pay for each one you kill ?It would still be fun! why not pay for each coyote you shoot when they are overpopulated because your helping the DOW raise money? Would you kill feral hogs if you had to pay for each one? Those of you saying its cheap to shoot does for 12$ dont live where they need to be thinned out so you really dont see the the situation. I really dont need more than 2 deer a year to eat, so i see it as helping the dnr fix the goal, they aint doing me no favors by selling me tags. Down south there are some states that you buy a liscense and go hunt, thats the way it should be here if they think there is too many deer. I dont have to argue this anymore because the proof that I'm right is the fact that the DNR has broken down and made it free in some areas because of what i am talking about.
As far as the comments for young bucks, your way off, not even going there because as usual your just assuming because i never even stated my position on that. I have my fence lines posted with QDM signs thats all im saying but i guess you will read something into that for arguments sake too.
Hey, i can shoot extra cows in colorado for 100$ and how many tags did i buy? none. Why? dont need the meat. Come to Wi and shoot some does this fall. I bet you would have trouble killing any in what the DNR calls overpopulated areas because it isnt like they say it is where they say it is always. Bottom line is this, DNR bitching no one kills does, why? Pretty easy to figure out. Should we let wolves do it? NO! Why? we like lots of deer to mange as we feel we need too. Not just as the DNR feels fit because the car insurence bigwigs puts pressure on them.
And as far as me being cheap! Your way off on that one. Lets see,before its over ...elk in UT, NM, CO,Az,NV,MT. Lopes in AZ,NM. Oryx in NM, Moose in UT, Sheep in 3 states. Lotteries for tags in other states,Patrons tags in my state, Yea, i'm cheap. Add it up on fronted money alone,not all of them are money up front but still, real tightwad i am.
Your right that more bunnyhuggers were for the wolf reintroduction then hunter's.
We all should to be careful to check links and follow the trail on links so we understand what type of person and what type of site they get there info. from .
If we follow someone with our eyes closed it might be right into the hand's of the anti's without every knowing it.
With any luck we will get them de-listed and get to start putting the fear back in them like it should be.
"Your not Just not getting the point i guess. Would you kill prarie dogs if you had to pay for each one you kill ?It would still be fun! why not pay for each coyote you shoot when they are overpopulated because your helping the DOW raise money?"
One of the differences is you don't get 50lbs. of meat from the prarie dog and coyote.
MD4M, As usual is twisting things around. I supplied the link to that site because I liked the book review that was featured. I even explained it. Anyone too stupid to understand that by now is either hopelessly feeble minded or deliberately lying.
Ithaca, just to get my final statement in,Like i said, the average person does not have time to prepeare or eat more than 2 deer a year no matter how good a deal you may think it is. So they shoot a buck, hopefully a nice one, shoot a doe for eats, and then what? Do the work of gutting, dragging butchering,or like most here pay to have it done because most deer hunters are just weekend warriors, so they DONT want to shoot them because its not fun for some its more like work. (I do everything myself though)So now you take a Govt agency who wants deer removed, and you think they should get paid for every one killed? Putting all the meat aside. Your wishy washy agruement is pathetic. Like i said, since you think we are doing the wisconsin DNR such a big favor why not follow suit in your state and start paying for every prarie dog, and varmit you shoot.
I really think your problem is that you relate everything to your own state and dont have the capacity to adapt a thought process to visualize what things are like in other states.
I on the other hand i can, i think you paying 50$ for and extra deer is a steal in your western states, and i think 100$ for a cow tag in CO is a good deal too because your state isnt in what they think is a huge population problem, and can get rid of the bulk of the extra permits still.
And keep in mind, not that its a huge fact but, we have to take our deer out whole, cannot quarter or skin them, and every deer needs to be registered at a station before leaving the hunting unit or one next to it. Warm weather like we have been having in the fall lately makes guys not even want to think about shooting a doe because its a major rush to get it out, registered , back home, hung and skinned so it can start to cool in less than 3 hours. You shoot a doe you pretty much blew your chances at hunting for Mr big the rest of that day. The day i killed all those does was a real cold day, so it was an opportunity.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzH: MD4ME said, "Your right that more bunnyhuggers were for the wolf reintroduction then hunter's."
More unsubstantiated drivel from MD4ME, can you even come close to providing any form of proof for that...or are you just flat making shit up and guessing? I think I know.
Did you conduct a poll?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Buzz, i can tell you in Wisconsin the bulk of the money came from other than the DNR. It mostly came from private funding (bunny huggers)and endangered species orgs. The hunters would have had a fit if it came from any money from Tag sales. I dont need to give you proof but if you want to dig some up feel free.
Schmalts, You make it sound like a lot of work to shoot, gut, skin and butcher a deer. I can do the whole job in less than 1 hour, total time. Maybe you need some lessons. The check station might take more time if it's not nearby. I've dealt with check stations in Eastern states many times.
You keep thinking up excuses not to kill your overpopulation of deer, but you don't want the wolves to kill them either. You ever eat a coyote or prarie dog? Don't expect people to pay for that kinda meat. Venison is good and can be prepared a thousand ways. I grew up on it.
"I supplied the link to that site because I liked the book review that was featured"
How does one even find a site like that LOL,and why would a so called hunter use it ?
All the hunters I know avoid those anti-hunting/anti/gun sites and would never post the link (inless of course they were a closet bunny-hugger)
One thing we know for sure is that the anti-meat eaters on that site like the book as much as you do!!!
Pretty risky business to be posting links to anti-hunting site's and siding with them.