Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[Irrelevant]

There are more people now than in the 70's.
More people from around the Country/world are aware of out-of-state hunting, and the benefits.
The cost/benefit of hunting out of state has become more beneficial, mainly because it's not solely dependent of the quality of the hunting you're seeking, but also on the quality of the hunting you're experiencing at home.

 

[Nick87]

20s not a lot of money
30-40 with kids not a lot of time or money

FIFY. You about to find out boy.

 

[RobertD]

I’d love to see the demographic data on Western hunting.

Boomers are a huge generation.
They did delay retirement and then all start to retire at once during the same time frame we are discussing.
They do have time + a lot of money, and are more likely to not care what it costs and they are more likely to have lots of points to cash in.

Would be interesting to see how much of the increases is 20 year old dudes versus 67.

Anecdotally, the only place I’ve seen a bunch of young guys is during elk archery. Spring bear in POW was like a cruise in Florida unloading the ferry.



If that is the case then in 5-10 years we will see pressure abate.

I bet you could FOIA request a demo breakdown of NR tags from some of the Western states. I agree with you it would be very interesting to see.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Will, you have some very odd ideas about "boomers" as you circular file them.

And your PoW spring bear observations was pretty close to 180 degrees from my one PoW spring bear experience.

What I see here on HT is also very different than your "boomer-blame" hypothesis. Have you looked in the mirror lately? Just sayin'.

To flesh this out a bit more, if demand outstrips supply even just 1% you feel the effects. I'm not sure where we are at now, but maybe it's 10%?

Who knows. I don't think there is one singular cause for the increase in demand, and I think R and NR hunting have some overlapping causes but also some differences.

Populations of western states of increased, so more residents that's huge.
Private landowners have closed off properties in other states.
Less private land habitat.
Definitely increased information on public hunting, and folks hunting because of influencers.
All of the various ways outfitters in various states have tried to increase the slice of pie their clients get.
Herds have also declined.

But then there is definitely a demographics piece, it can't be purely a coincidence. First boomers turned 65 in 2011, youngest boomers are 59 today. When did the pressure spike start?

Baby boomers are also way healthier at their age then previous generations, which means folks using a resource longer than previous generations. So even if all else stayed exactly the same that one piece might cause some supply constraints.


The red box is your key out of state hunting demo... college kids are buying $1000 elk tags.

Just population wise, there will be a decrease in hunters in about 10 years.

Millennials will screw it up again in about 30 years.


Hunter personalities by age...
Jim Shockey 65 - Boomer
Cam Hanes is 55... so gen X
Rinella 48 Gen X
Joe Rogan 55 Gen X
Jason Matzinger -44

To your last point I'm definitely a high resource user, I've gotten to spend a ton of time hunting and had a ton of tags, I'm not sure if my experience is necessarily representative of the mean.

Last... there is definitely some weird pieces of data I can't explain, like CO has a huge pressure increase... but if you look at historic numbers we are waaaaay down in totally elk hunters numbers in the last 15 years. How does that work?

 

[Nick87]

Just population wise, there will be a decrease in hunters in about 10 years

Looking forward to that. But I don't think it will change anything.

 

[BrentD]

I love the way the "boomer" group keeps expanding and expanding. That's an awful lot of post-war banging for 2 decades to make all those boomer babes. But gotta have that stereotype.

Looking at the grip and grins, it's pretty clear that boomers ain't the big problem.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Looking forward to that. But I don't think it will change anything.

Definitely seems unlikely to offset the other factors, but humans suck at anticipating change and boom and bust cycles happen with everything.

I mean in 1990s and early 2000s all the ski areas were talking about going belly up, and about how the sport was dying.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I love the way the "boomer" group keeps expanding and expanding. That's an awful lot of post-war banging for 2 decades to make all those boomer babes. But gotta have that stereotype.

Oh come on... I'm not making any generalizations about the character or behavior I'm pointing at a chart.

Like I said... gonna happen again. That bulge in the millennial demo is what keeps "breaking" everything.

 

[Nick87]

Oh come on... I'm not making any generalizations about the character or behavior I'm pointing at a chart.

Seems relevant from earlier...

Post in thread '5 things about you.' https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/5-things-about-you.317605/post-3542316

 

[Nick87]

Definitely seems unlikely to offset the other factors, but humans suck at anticipating change and boom and bust cycles happen with everything.

Very true.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Seems relevant from earlier...

Post in thread '5 things about you.' https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/5-things-about-you.317605/post-3542316

There is a decent chance I'm totally full of shit... so let's not too far over our skis.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

@Nick87 Brent also has a PhD and I make power points for a living... one of these days I'll cajole him into using R for a HT post

 

[WYelker]

I have said it elsewhere and will say it here. The special fee increase is Otis and should not pass. I am not for giving any government agency a blank check when it is not justified.

In this case there is no budget short fall we are fixing. The increase in revenue is not for specific programs etc. Under the current funding structure the game and fish is not cutting corner to meet budget co strainers etc.

This bill is the last attempt by the WOGA to get their clients a bigger slice of the pie. By moving the special price so high that only their wealthy clients might apply…

 

[BrentD]

@Nick87 Brent also has a PhD and I make power points for a living... one of these days I'll cajole him into using R for a HT post

Since you insist I'm a boomer - I'd prefer Fortran or Pascal to R.

I was never a boomer when I was born. Far too young for that. But I grew into one apparently. So interesting how we have to have these labels so we can have stereotypes.

Very interesting radio program I caught last week about this very topic (stereotyping generations). It's a relatively "new" thing, and it is pretty much full of shit too. Which tends to make discussions using those labels pretty fruitless.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

@Nick87 Brent also has a PhD and I make power points for a living... one of these days I'll cajole him into using R for a HT post

Out of the resident PhD’s that come to mind first, I’ll pass on hitching my wagon to their powers of deduction.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Since you insist I'm a boomer - I'd prefer Fortran or Pascal.

I was never a boomer when I was born. Far too young for that. But I grew into one apparently. So interesting how we have to have these labels so we can have stereotypes.

Very interesting radio program I caught last week about this very topic (stereotyping generations). It's a relatively "new" thing, and it is pretty much full of shit too. Which tends to make discussions using those labels pretty fruitless.

Ok...

Yeah it's totally silly to associate behaviors with an age cohort.

But saying hey a bunch of primates procreated at an unusually high rate between 46' and 64' peaking in 60' is totally valid.

We can use Gen W (the other label) if you don't like the connotations of boomer. Millennials are Gen Y, my kid will be Gen Alpha, and if we have a second they will be Gen Beta.

Those are the actual names, I'm not making that up.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

…Very interesting radio program…

Them are boomer words.

 

[Nick87]

Out of the resident PhD’s that come to mind first, I’ll pass on hitching my wagon to their powers of deduction.

Didn't want to go there, glad somebody else was thinking of it.

 

[BrentD]

Ok...

Yeah it's totally silly to associate behaviors with an age cohort.

But saying hey a bunch of primates procreated at an unusually high rate between 46' and 64' peaking in 60' is totally valid.

We can use Gen W (the other label) if you don't like the connotations of boomer. Millennials are Gen Y, my kid will be Gen Alpha, and if we have a second they will be Gen Beta.

Those are the actual names, I'm not making that up.

Whatever. I don't like broad brushes to paint social portraits. In fact, I hate them and find them to be disingenuous and counterproductive. And I especially don't like that they are used on moving targets.

In the meantime, I think your generalizations are pretty far from the mark and I can make powerpoints too. I was on the leading edge of that crutch and used it for 3 decades, in round numbers. So, yeah, I put anything in a graph too. Big deal.

Real Boomers are far too old to be schelpping elks out of the backcountry. Nouveau boomers like myself are pretty slow at best, and most of us talk a lot more than we apply, much less hunt - at least when it comes to big game. Of the ones that have your kind of money, only a tiny number have legs that make 18 holes with a cart, much less 1800 vertical with a pack. Upland birds might be slightly different but there was only one boomer on your grouse adventure, and he was of the nouveau variety, minus the $80,000 pick up and Sitka anything.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Whatever. I don't like broad brushes to paint social portraits. In fact, I hate them and find them to be disingenuous and counterproductive. And I especially don't like that they are used on moving targets.

In the meantime, I think your generalizations are pretty far from the mark and I can make powerpoints too. I was on the leading edge of that crutch and used it for 3 decades, in round numbers. So, yeah, I put anything in a graph too. Big deal.

Real Boomers are far too old to be schelpping elks out of the backcountry. Nouveau boomers like myself are pretty slow at best, and most of us talk a lot more than we apply, much less hunt - at least when it comes to big game. Of the ones that have your kind of money, only a tiny number have legs that make 18 holes with a cart, much less 1800 vertical with a pack. Upland birds might be slightly different but there was only one boomer on your grouse adventure, and he was of the nouveau variety, minus the $80,000 pick up and Sitka anything.

Serious question: Do you disagree with the premise that differences in disposable income among demographics influence demand, or just disagree with compartmentalizing demographic groups?

In short, what would your PowerPoints say?