Why do we have biologists?

[1_pointer]

SS- IMO, it would take a bold administration to change the fee structure for grazing on BLM lands as that would pretty much require a re-writing of the Taylor Grazing Act. I just don't see too many politicos willing to take that risk. The debate would end up being led by two extremes, those that want all livestock off and the Sagebrush Rebellion types. The result might end up with a bigger cost burden on the agency. IME, private land lease prices are set at rate that has the leasor not the leasee being responsible for maintenance of infrastructure. At least I recall that being the case for the average private land lease prices that the BLM uses for livestock trespass. As of now, the permittee is responsible for maintenance and not the agency. If the fees were increased to reflect the private land rate, I think an argument could easily be made that the agency should be responsible for the infrastructure. The sad part is how much more, in some instances, it costs to get through the red tape and litigation than the actual on the ground work costs.

As an aside, the agency has the authority to charge over the amount calculated for a given year and put that into the range improvements fund. This would be a viable way to increase some funding for projects and I know of its use in some areas to great effect. Each of the last two administrations have taken a run at this fund to take it away from the agency to put it into the general fund. So far those attempts have been unsuccessful as it is a part of the Taylor Grazing Act.

IME, lack of funding has generally not been the issue for fire rehab. Contracting and other requirements, most notably archealogy, preventing the timeliness of treatment has been a bigger hurdle, especially on big fire years. Those two things along with terrain/management plans limiting the treatment options are the biggest hurddles for successful fire rehab where I worked.

In brief, the science/knowledge base is there to fix many of the issues we see with the condition of public lands. I don't disagree that funding can be an issue in implementing some of the changes to fix these problems, however I feel that other things are a bigger limiting factor in getting the needed work on the ground.

 

[WT_in_MT]

There is only ONE WAY sound biology and science based management will become the paradigm once again....guess what it is

The Vikings winning the Super Bowl, thus meaning Hell hath frozen over?

 

[Big Fin]

IME, lack of funding has generally not been the issue for fire rehab. Contracting and other requirements, most notably archealogy, preventing the timeliness of treatment has been a bigger hurdle, especially on big fire years. Those two things along with terrain/management plans limiting the treatment options are the biggest hurddles for successful fire rehab where I worked.

Pointer - Thanks for that insight. I had never given consideration that those type of issues would be the hurdles to progress. Disappointing to learn that, given the need for quick action following fires. If that continues, the landscape changes to vegetation and wildlife habitat in the next 20 years does not spell good news for wildlife, particularly mule deer.

 

[1_pointer]

The changes can be almost permanent. I think most everyone on this forum would be a supporter of designated wilderness areas. The rules regarding travel within one of these areas extends to suppression and rehab efforts as well. Therefore about the only method that is feasible is an aerial seeding, which have a much lower chance of success than a drill seeding or an aerial seeding followed by a mechanical process to cover the seed. I agree, that in some wilderness areas natural regeneration after a fire is a non-issue, but on many desert ranges these areas need all the help they can get. So, in this case the most "protected" areas are actually less "protected" than those with fewer management restrictions...

PS- Sorry for being so wordy on these topics, but I miss my old job dearly and absolutely loved what I did. Sharing the information allows me to sorta relive that time.

 

[shoots-straight]

PS- Sorry for being so wordy on these topics, but I miss my old job dearly and absolutely loved what I did. Sharing the information allows me to sorta relive that time.

No, not at all, I'm getting an education here. I hardly know jack about this problem. I appreciate your time and efforts here.

We have a mule deer herd here, that doesn't get much in the way of hunting pressure. Huge bucks live there. Anyway, the doe deer are disappearing at a pretty good clip all of a sudden. There's really not much cover for lions, Wolves rarely enter this area, because of geographic constraints. The only thing we can put our finger on would be some sort of range condition that's the limiting factor. It could be a sign of bad things yet to come in the rest of the Root.

 

[1_pointer]

No, not at all, I'm getting an education here. I hardly know jack about this problem. I appreciate your time and efforts here.

We have a mule deer herd here, that doesn't get much in the way of hunting pressure. Huge bucks live there. Anyway, the doe deer are disappearing at a pretty good clip all of a sudden. There's really not much cover for lions, Wolves rarely enter this area, because of geographic constraints. The only thing we can put our finger on would be some sort of range condition that's the limiting factor. It could be a sign of bad things yet to come in the rest of the Root.

Don Peay would say it's coyotes...

What kind of range is it? Any pictures? I've seen areas that provide great winter browse, but are short on grass/forbs, which I've read/heard are important once spring comes, especially for lactating does. If that's the case, its a pretty easy fix. We thinned the brush in this area with a pasture aerator. I've seen quite a few deer on this in the spring and the pronghorn use most of the year.

 

[shoots-straight]

It's similar type range land habitat. The Sage Brush, is much more mature, and the old Grease woods (Mountain Mahogany I believe) are browsed. The deer herd here had been over carrying capacity for years. The bucks move away and up into the high country for most of the year. The come down to breed and winter there. It sure doesn't have any grass like in those pictures.

 

[1_pointer]

The sagebrush was much more abundant prior to the treatment. IIRC, the data showed about an 80% kill on the sagebrush in the treated areas. Greasewood and mtn mahogany, IME, rarely inhabit the same places. Greasewood likes quite alkaline (salty) soils and one can have a hard time treating these areas as they go do non-native invasive species quite readily. If you have mtn mahogany, which would be my guess, the area probably gets enough moisture than a treatment should be quite effective. I've found that areas over 12" of precip respond quite well to treatment.

Just a SWAG, but my guess is that the over capacity deer herd has reduced the browse available and you're lacking the herbaceous component to help out once winter breaks. Quite a few of the old timers I've worked with have told me how well mule deer respond to early/mid seral vegetation (more grass/forbs than shrubs), especially if that's the "age" of vegetation that is lacking in the area. If the area has sagebrush in it and hasn't been treated or burned in the last 20+ years I would guess that is what you might be dealing with. Even aged seral stages aren't nearly as productive as one with a variety of ages; is the spice of life!

Depending on the terrain, there are multiple ways of reducing the brush species to give the herbaceous stuff a leg up. If it's on federal land, my guess is that spraying would be the cheapest, followed by mechanical and then prescribed fire. If you were wanting to really increase forbs, the last two are a better bet than spraying as the chemical that kills sagebrush will often times kill the forbs as well. The area wouldn't happened to have a sheep grazing permit would it? If so, there's a another option for killing off some of the sagebrush. Takes a bit of work on the herder's part, but it does work.

If you can, get a local bio/range guy out on the ground to access the situation and let you know if what I'm guessing is the case. If it is, some of these treatments aren't too expensive and I've found that if someone elses is willing/able to foot the bill its a bit easier to get it done, even on federal land! Heck, try a few hundred acres and see if you see increased deer use as a way of seeing if it works. If your group would foot the bill for the plane ticket, I'd be more than willing to come out and help!!

 

[sweetnectar]

We did some aerial seeding following a selective tree thinning on our place. We also did seeding via a broadcaster on a 4 wheeler following selective tree thinning/logging. The broadcasting method worked a whole lot better from what I believe was the ability to get the seed on target (get more seed in areas where the soil was disturbed). I imagine if a guy could drill seed in following fires the results would be preferred over other methods. I hadn't thought that a big hang up would be archeology. Are there other things that inhibit timeliness? ....Impact studies, 43 required signatures, writing reports up beforehand, other government processes? Managing private land seems easier.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I hadn't thought that a big hang up would be archeology. Are there other things that inhibit timeliness? ....Impact studies, 43 required signatures, writing reports up beforehand, other government processes? Managing private land seems easier.

FLPMA and NEPA, embrace the insanity.

 

[1_pointer]

The two that Ben mention are time sinks when it comes to regular projects. NEPA is quite streamlined for fire rehab. The other big hurdle is contracting to get the work done. Often times the fires are too big for us to complete the work in house so it's contracted out. Getting the funding for the contract isn't the problem. The contracting process is what takes too long; soliciting for bids, evaluating them, etc. Then if you are having to contract out the archeology... The only other big hang up I've experienced is getting the seed. The gov. has seed buys and warehouses, but they can run out and may/may not have what you need.

Surprisinglly, the approvals signature process is quite fast. I don't remember the exact numbers, but one only has about 14days to get a plan sent in for approval. They generally get this turned around within a month from the fire being put out.